Struck Down For Playing A Jamerson Line!

[Sid Fang]

Neither the guitarist or keys player read music well but they both have understandings of chord structures.

That's good enough to have the necessary conversation. If the vocalist is, consciously or not, keying off the bass notes and getting confused when you're doing the 3s and 5s, there are multiple possible solutions. You could stick to the roots, in which case someone *else* (keys, guitar, horns) would have to provide the emphasis on the other degree, or they can learn to key off of a different instrument for that song. Rock'n'roll is a team sport.

 

[Paul New]

I didn't realize that Stevie recorded it. I only know Marvin Gaye's hit version.
Anyway, I'll just chime in and say that I've also been in situations where I've thought I was raising the whole band up by learning and executing an exact part, only to finally realize that it just did not work with the instrumentation and/or particular individuals, at the time. If you're about to cause a potentially useful tune to fail, you adapt.
As someone else said, though, there are limits. You absolutely need to preserve parts in tunes like "Another One Bites the Dust" or "Come Together", for example.

They adapted by moving me to barisax for that number.
This version preserved the bassline!

 

[ElectroVibe]

We cannot pretend to know what James Jamerson would have played if he had been in your situation. For all we know he would have tried to adapt to the singer

 

[ElectroVibe]

I have heard too many inexperienced bass players trying to play non root notes because of the way the chords are written, but the problem is that they're in a small combo and it sounds horrible. An experienced player will know when to hold back a little or to play it next to the root note so that it has more context. Or just play the proper root note instead.

 

[ElectroVibe]

I can remember one time when a good musician has made a bad mistake like this. There was a local band that my friends and I used to like years ago. One of the band members was a female singer who played acoustic guitar and she sang solo on some of the songs. One time we went to see her playing solo on acoustic at a smaller Club. When she did one of the songs it didn't sound very good even though she was doing exactly what she did with the band. My friend who is a non-musician ask me why isn't she playing at the same way? And I didn't know what to say because she actually was, but I think she should have done something different to adapt to that setting like playing more softly or slow picking or something like that.

 

[basseux]

There is (or at least, should be) a big difference in approach to songs between a cover band and a tribute act.

The latter needs to be exact in the parts that are played, the sound of the voices and instruments and also the look, inasmuch as is possible.

The former is usually designed as a single song from a particular group, that is added into a set with material from potentially many other groups and even styles. In this case, the cover in question should be designed to fit in with the rest of the songs, lest it stand out in a strange way in the set and yes, throw off the other band members who are used to playing in a certain style.

You are in a BAND. Your #1 priority should be making the band sound good. The folks who are saying that you need to force your band members to play the song the way you’ve decided to learn it are giving you bad advice and definitely wouldn’t last long in a band context themselves if this is their attitude, plus their shows (if they play any) probably suck to listen to.

tl;dr do what makes the song sound best, not what strokes your ego the most

The truth is that most people do not learn the songs.

They don't spend time mimicking the feel by playing along a record, recording themselves and listening back what they played.

Therefore when they say they don't like a version it's more likely they just can't play it, because they don't get what the feel is about.

You can't really make the band sound good by yourself if other members are not putting the work in.

Also you will always have to bend to their limitations.

 

[mongo2]

I was playing with a new band at one point, and they were doing King of the Road (the old Roger Miller country tune). The great classic country bass player, Bob Moore, plays a really wonderful line on that song. You can hear it in the intro, because it's just him playing upright bass with some finger snaps to keep the time.

We covered King Of The Road for a short showcase at a local country hall. I used my UBass for it's uprighteous tonality and I put a bit of my own spin on it but it was recognizable. When I started with the guitarist/singer on finger snap we heard a lone voice at the back of the auditorium filled with hard-core country fans shout out a resounding "YEAH!" The guitarist and I both looked at each other and smiled while our lap steel player nearly fell off his perch in surprise.

 

[LBS-bass]

The truth is that most people do not learn the songs.

This right here. All of this preaching about rearranging to suit the instrumentation is utter bollocks if the guitarist hasn't learned his parts, and if he's distracted by the original bass line that means he hasn't learned his parts.

There's no real discussion to be had beyond there. If he's played it enough with the record to know his parts, the bass line should not be a distraction. If anything, the lack of proper cues if the original bassline is not there would be more distracting.

So yes, you might find at some point that parts need to be changed to better represent the song, but this is unlikely to be what's happening because in 90% of similar scenarios, it isn't the problem. It's almost always the case that someone just hasn't done their work.

I still don't know why we're so quick to see this as a problem the OP is supposed to somehow take responsibility for. Especially when he's in a band where someone else is labeling Jamerson a hack for coming up with the parts he played. All signs point away from OP being the issue here.

 

[Sid Fang]

This right here. All of this preaching about rearranging to suit the instrumentation is utter bollocks if the guitarist hasn't learned his parts, and if he's distracted by the original bass line that means he hasn't learned his parts.

Interesting how we project missing information onto the stories we are told. When the OP described the problem with their vocalist/guitarist, I assumed that the issue was making the vocal part work, especially with typical crap monitoring, while you seem to assume that they're having problems with learning the guitar part. Problems with the guitar part could indeed be down to lack of study/practice, but as an occasional vocalist myself, sometimes the bass note resonating in my chest helps me find and stay on my pitch when I can't hear myself properly in the monitors. OP mentioned that they had to change the key for the vocalists range, which suggests that the value of learning from the original recording is limited (I have the tech to transpose recordings, but I've been a hacker for almost as long as I've been a musician). Could be both of course. But I have the distinct impression that you're having a deja vu moment with a traumatically bad guitarist in your own past (or present, gods help you).
...

I still don't know why we're so quick to see this as a problem the OP is supposed to somehow take responsibility for. Especially when he's in a band where someone else is labeling Jamerson a hack for coming up with the parts he played. All signs point away from OP being the issue here.

I just scanned the whole thread and couldn't find the "labeling Jamerson a hack", just a dumb line from the keyboard player, which in context sounds like they were being bandleaderly and trying to cool down the argument between the OP and the vocalist/guitarist by making them both "right". But perhaps more importantly, I didn't notice anyone claiming the OP is the issue here. Like I said, rock'n'roll is a team sport, and we adjust to our teammates strengths and weaknesses when we take the field. The OP has a problem. It does not seem to be his fault. But telling the vocalist/guitarist that they are incompetent and 100% to blame is unlikely to improve the situation, and as the OP has said, on the whole it's a band he enjoys playing and gigging with.

 

[LBS-bass]

Interesting how we project missing information onto the stories we are told. When the OP described the problem with their vocalist/guitarist, I assumed that the issue was making the vocal part work, especially with typical crap monitoring, while you seem to assume that they're having problems with learning the guitar part. Problems with the guitar part could indeed be down to lack of study/practice, but as an occasional vocalist myself, sometimes the bass note resonating in my chest helps me find and stay on my pitch when I can't hear myself properly in the monitors. OP mentioned that they had to change the key for the vocalists range, which suggests that the value of learning from the original recording is limited (I have the tech to transpose recordings, but I've been a hacker for almost as long as I've been a musician). Could be both of course. But I have the distinct impression that you're having a deja vu moment with a traumatically bad guitarist in your own past (or present, gods help you).
...
I just scanned the whole thread and couldn't find the "labeling Jamerson a hack", just a dumb line from the keyboard player, which in context sounds like they were being bandleaderly and trying to cool down the argument between the OP and the vocalist/guitarist by making them both "right". But perhaps more importantly, I didn't notice anyone claiming the OP is the issue here. Like I said, rock'n'roll is a team sport, and we adjust to our teammates strengths and weaknesses when we take the field. The OP has a problem. It does not seem to be his fault. But telling the vocalist/guitarist that they are incompetent and 100% to blame is unlikely to improve the situation, and as the OP has said, on the whole it's a band he enjoys playing and gigging with.

Experience comes into play since nine times out of ten someone not learning their part has been the issue and it's almost never more complicated than that. Anyone can project anything else into this if they want, but experience teaches and informs, the rest is just guessing.

As far as bandleaderly, anyone saying Jamerson didn't know what he was doing is suggesting he's a hack; did he have to use exactly that word, or is context not a thing you understand? Is literalism the only way I'm able to communicate here with people now?

It was also a stupid thing to say that was dismissive of the effort the OP took to pay honor to an iconic player's original work.

What a freaking world the internet has created where I have to actually explain how to take meaning from context.

Anyway, ya'll have a good time fighting over this.

 

[basseux]

OP mentioned that they had to change the key for the vocalists range, which suggests that the value of learning from the original recording is limited

You are just making up an excuse, because this rather suggests the value of learning how to tranpose.

 

[basseux]

Like I said, rock'n'roll is a team sport, and we adjust to our teammates strengths and weaknesses when we take the field.

There is no excuse in team sports to not practice, do drills, and stay in shape.