Struck Down For Playing A Jamerson Line!

[devnulljp]

Guitarist needs to practice

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

So Anyway, I'd suggest that you support the singer on this one, at least until you've got a working arrangement. The vocal on this one is essential to your audience and it's going to take some effort to sing it.

If that doesn't work, maybe your singer just doesn't have the vocal chops for this one... Not everybody does. Is he fishing for an excuse because he can't deliver?

And since your moniker is PolkaHero.... make it a Polka!!

 

[MegaSwing]

This, my friends, is why classic Motown isn’t ordinary popular music.

I say play the song so that it sounds correct, or forget about it.

 

[hrodbert696]

That recording has piano, guitar, strings, several background singers, horns, and maybe an organ to outline the harmony. Without all that, the inversions may sound a bit weird to the rest of the band. I would suggest keeping the rhythmic groove but simplify the inversions by playing more roots.

That was my thought. In my very first gigging band, we played Journey's "Stone In Love," with the whole long guitar-solo outro, but the band had just the one guitar and no other chordal instruments. I learned the bass part, which is a pretty wide-ranging counter-melody to the guitar solo, and the guitarist told me he couldn't play it that way, because there weren't any roots under what he was doing. It bugged me, but he was right. These days, in a similar band, I just throw in a couple of the little licks Ross Valery played to signal it, but don't run all up the neck.

 

[Pings Bass]

Guitarists/vocalists* get harmonically confused without a bass anchoring them to the root.

*Guitarists/vocalists who haven't studied music or played anything but rock

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

If the only reason to change up the bassline is that your guitarist/vocalist is getting thrown off by it and you're playing it note-for-note as the original, which is the agreed upon version you are all working to, it is because he doesn't know his parts well enough.

It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when a band tries a song and then after muddling through it the first time someone says it's not working. Of course it's not working, you didn't learn your part well enough to make it work!

I think every band can change things up and it may not necessarily required to play it like the original. However, nobody can fault you for learning it like the original; that should be the starting point.

 

[klejst]

A guitar player getting thrown off and b*tthurt because of a complicated bass part?

Just tell him to turn his guitar down and follow time of the drummer...or to stop being lazy.

 

[Jason Hollar]

I deal with this a lot. Not just limited to JJ but he is the quintessential example.

Sorry to say most cover bands today come from a rock & roll background and I find I needed to “straighten” out the line or else the band completely falls apart.

That and in the heat of battle, the tempos and volume can bump up quite a bit so any kind of subtlety gets lost pretty quick.

Not JJ, but similar style : try playing I Want You Back about 10 clicks faster - hoo boy

 

[PolkaHero]

That was my thought. In my very first gigging band, we played Journey's "Stone In Love," with the whole long guitar-solo outro, but the band had just the one guitar and no other chordal instruments. I learned the bass part, which is a pretty wide-ranging counter-melody to the guitar solo, and the guitarist told me he couldn't play it that way, because there weren't any roots under what he was doing. It bugged me, but he was right. These days, in a similar band, I just throw in a couple of the little licks Ross Valery played to signal it, but don't run all up the neck.

I heard a Journey tribute band last year and the bassist played just the root notes during the end guitar solo for "Stone In Love". Of course 90 percent of the audience didn't notice but I died a little inside after hearing that.

 

[steveinohio]

It’s just a bass line. Make the compromise for your band mates if that’s what the situation calls for. If the singer sounds bad you sound bad.

 

[GregT]

Can't speak for anyone else, but If I were asked to learn that song to play in a band, those are not the notes I'd play. Too busy for live music when people want to dance. I would easily make the song sound like the song while playing a simpler bass line. Not saying it's not good, because it truly is...with the horn section. Without the horns to play against, I'd just make the song sound good. If I were playing in a band with the horns, I'd play a lot closer to the original, of course. For me the horns are what makes the difference.

 

[ole Jason]

It’s just a bass line. Make the compromise for your band mates if that’s what the situation calls for. If the singer sounds bad you sound bad.

Best answer in the thread. Like it or not vocals are #1!

 

[lfmn16]

This is one of the occasional TalkBass threads that make clear which posters I'd probably get along with in a band.

and why most bands break up.

To use a boat analogy, almost every band has one or two guys rowing, a couple along for the ride and at least one boat anchor doing their best to hold everyone back. The best bands are where everyone leaves their ego at the door and pulls together to deliver a professional product. If the song doesn't sound good, you aren't doing your part "right" regardless of whether it's note for note or not.

Maybe the first step is to let the guitarist/singer know that you're playing the line note for note and get together before or after rehearsal to run through it to see exactly what is throwing them off, you know, "team work" rather than starting with "screw you, I'm playing it like the recording." Just a thought.

 

[KenD]

The line Jamerson played is irrelevant and could, in fact, be wrong depending on the arrangement of the song your band wants to play. Jamerson is correct for an identical cover but not necessarily anywhere else.

 

[tbz]

Sometimes the original parts don’t work, if you aren’t using the exact same instrumentation and mix.

Just have to adapt and modify the original into something that works.

 

[LBS-bass]

Maybe the first step is to let the guitarist/singer know that you're playing the line note for note and get together before or after rehearsal to run through it to see exactly what is throwing them off, you know, "team work" rather than starting with "screw you, I'm playing it like the recording." Just a thought.

I think going a step further and asking him to play it by himself (or at least without the bass) to see if there are places where he needs a little support (as in help defining where his problems are) might also be a good idea. If my hunches about this are right, this could be useful. If he can play and sing it fine without the bass then he may just need to work harder on getting it down solid so that the bass doesn't distract him. If he can't, then he still needs to learn it.

I just don't hear anything suggesting that the arrangement itself is not working, musically. So I'd be hesitant to make a bunch of changes to that without finding out if the singer/guitarist can be helped through it first.

 

[PolkaHero]

What's funny is my bandleader (the keys player) remarked about maybe the original bass player didn't know what he was doing when it was first recorded, lol. Obviously some people haven't heard of the Funk Brothers!

 

[JRA]

My band is learning "What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted" so I learned James Jamerson's part note for note. At rehearsal today our guitarist/vocalist said the bass line was throwing him off, lol. It is a strange line with a lot of 5ths and 3rds being played over the root chords. Just wondering if I should simplify it a bit and/or if anyone here has covered it and what they ended up playing?

it's an easy bass line. likewise, it would be easy to capture the essence of the tune by playing something else than note-for-note.

whether or not the others are 'correct' seems irrelevant. reducing the discussion to the usual binary thinking (either/or) is a stupid move for a tune that needs radical updating (in the first place) to be viable in modern dance venues.

i'd find out what the others were playing (changes) and play something appropriate. maybe the tune is a good call, maybe it isn't. you'd find out by trying to help the lame ones, if there are any.

jamerson was brilliant but he may have been 'recovering' (or bored, or bothered, yada yada) on the day that tune was recorded.

sometimes (mostly!) it makes sense to be a musician (instead of "just a bass player") in an ensemble setting.

if you can't deviate from your note-for-note, then write out the arrangement the others should adhere to and give it a go.

not a "hill i would die on!"

good luck!

 

[wysiwyg248]

Although most comments here will ask you to stick to your guns, I see the job of a bass player as part of the band. It doesn't matter if you play note by note, no one on the audience is going to say, the singer sucks but the bass player is great. Adjust so the final product is the best the band can offer.
And relative to the singer / guitar player being thrown off, ask them to listen to concentrate on the drum pedal and you can also give them visual cues about when to start/stop.

 

[DrayMiles]

I learned that song years ago, and I learned it note for note. I discovered it's based on the diminished scale (C if I remember correctly.. Hmm). If it's played correctly BY EVERYONE in the ensemble, it's great.

Don't change a thing. To heck with being told to basically simplify it for lazy folk... IMO.

I mean, if you have to, then go for it with the knowledge that you are right...