“They’re wrong. They’re wrong. This is really good. The world is wrong and we’re right.”
The Struggle With The Audience
The Struggle With The Audience
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Struggle With The Audience
- Thread starter Bunk McNulty
- Start date
"On YouTube and Instagram, the negative reactions become increasingly extreme as people competed to make the most negative comment."
Ah, the good old days, when if you didn't like what you were watching or listening to, you'd just change the channel and go bout your way.
(cue Streisand singing 'The Way We Were'.)
Ah, the good old days, when if you didn't like what you were watching or listening to, you'd just change the channel and go bout your way.
(cue Streisand singing 'The Way We Were'.)
There can be certain victories over time. Over the years, many of my bands would have 1 or 2 relatively unknown songs per gig such as Starry Eyes (Records), Lies (Knickerbockers), and Banditos (Refreshments). Eventually these were requested, not necessarily by name, by the audience.
And everyone thought Lies was a forgotten Beatles number.
And everyone thought Lies was a forgotten Beatles number.
Witness Chester Bennington.....someone who let the audience get to him. And the outcome.
Regarding the Sgt Pepper wouldn't exist with social media comment. I don't agree. The boys were stronger than that.
Thick skin required in this biz no question.
Regarding the Sgt Pepper wouldn't exist with social media comment. I don't agree. The boys were stronger than that.
Thick skin required in this biz no question.
It's great when everyone loves everything you create , but when some people take issue with new material or direction ......it's their right to do so . But the artist(s) needs to be able to ignore it because anyone can be a critic .......move on .
I like how the Stranglers solved this. Can't please everyone, and an obstreperous delivery soon gets antagonism back, but it rapidly sorts out who is with them and who isn't. It's not the best way to deal with it but it was effective for them, and they changed because they let it change them. For a long time it didn't work out anyway, but they did solve it in the end because the question then becomes 'what of those who remain?' Are they 'cult', or 'family'. Cult leaders seem to want to control. The stranglers never did, they just defied those who made their lives difficult, as did many punks. The result, in later years, is a sort of family, people get on better because they never set out to be controlling in the first place. 'Success' need only be measured by there being enough people willing to pay to see a performance, to pay the bills and not leave performers wondering if it's worth continuing. By that time, those that stayed probably don't mind some new songs they can't relate to because they've already made the choice as to whether they 'belong' with what the band does in general.
None of that can be done on demand, or quickly, so there's little point wasting time by trying to please everyone at the outset.
When I've played at parties I sometimes get people who want me to play what they know, but I'm not a record shop. I won't say anything like that unless someone gets annoying, better to just talk to them for a moment if I have the time, then go back to what I intended to do. I can let the responses to that guide what I do, but there's no point in bending over for someone. It's a long-term problem, I can even hear this in some of Mozart's music! Sometimes it's inventive, glorious, strong, other times it minces about as if he's frightened of getting a footman's boot up his arse because some courtier found him to be out of favour that week. If we are lucky enough not to have to endure that kind of 'patronage' then we are a lot freer to choose than he was. So long as we can live with our choices, we'll get by. If I need to earn from playing, I don't need the approbation of half a planet. I just don't measure 'success' that way.
None of that can be done on demand, or quickly, so there's little point wasting time by trying to please everyone at the outset.
When I've played at parties I sometimes get people who want me to play what they know, but I'm not a record shop. I won't say anything like that unless someone gets annoying, better to just talk to them for a moment if I have the time, then go back to what I intended to do. I can let the responses to that guide what I do, but there's no point in bending over for someone. It's a long-term problem, I can even hear this in some of Mozart's music! Sometimes it's inventive, glorious, strong, other times it minces about as if he's frightened of getting a footman's boot up his arse because some courtier found him to be out of favour that week. If we are lucky enough not to have to endure that kind of 'patronage' then we are a lot freer to choose than he was. So long as we can live with our choices, we'll get by. If I need to earn from playing, I don't need the approbation of half a planet. I just don't measure 'success' that way.
I firmly believe that when creating your original music you just have to follow your own path largely. Nothing necessarily wrong with considering and absorbing external feedback you get, but if you think your music is good, i don't think you should change it because a group of people don't care for it. There will always be someone that hates what you do, loves what you do, or simply couldn't care less.
I was loading out of a jazz gig last night and a guy said, "tried to get my wife to come but she hates jazz." I just laughed and thought "so does mine."
I was loading out of a jazz gig last night and a guy said, "tried to get my wife to come but she hates jazz." I just laughed and thought "so does mine."
I think part of it is that when you're doing creative work, you rely a lot on feedback. That's a good thing; I'm sure we all know or have encountered someone who's "doing their own thing" who REALLY could use someone to tell them that their "own thing" could use some serious work.
The trick is that you really need to cultivate someone whose judgment you trust, who gets what you're trying to do but will also give firm, honest, constructive criticism. When you don't have that you're prone to getting blown by every wind.
The trick is that you really need to cultivate someone whose judgment you trust, who gets what you're trying to do but will also give firm, honest, constructive criticism. When you don't have that you're prone to getting blown by every wind.
I've been on a Tom Petty binge the last few weeks, and a lot of his best work was when he was at odds with the music business (and even his band members at times). Sometimes tension has it's place and it takes personal strength to go your own way and take chances. His later albums, like Full moon fever, members of the Heartbreakers refused to play on it. There are some great interviews with Tom Petty, Mike Campbell, and Benmont Tench - in their case the audience was never the bad guy.
If we’re playing to a room of 100 smiling, dancing, happy people and someone deems it appropriate to criticize us to our faces, I tell ‘em they can just leave and we’ll refund whatever they paid to get in. Oh … wait … 
it's not just music --- that attitude can serve anyone who wants to make changes: in spite of, or because of the status quo.
i don't like playing for hostile audiences (isn't that what chicken wire is for?
), but unless the audience vote is unanimously negative i think i'd persevere...just play on. (but always with a smile, of course! 
)the problem for some performers: they hear a single criticism and think they have to change something.
playing original music requires some amount of commitment and moxie. audience feedback should help, not hurt, the creative process, but some folks are too wrapped up in their little corner of the universe to know how to use feedback, constructive or otherwise.
In my experience, I played in bands where folks would tell me what we ought to do, how so and so's band was better, etc., . . . . . and they'd come back two or three nights a week every week.
The only opinion that mattered was whether or not clubs would keep us working, and they all did. Done deal.
It goes in THIS ear and goes out THAT ear.
The only opinion that mattered was whether or not clubs would keep us working, and they all did. Done deal.
It goes in THIS ear and goes out THAT ear.
Enjoyed the article.
I bet the subject band would rather play for their 20,000 than 500 or so. At least while they can. And the reality is no matter how much some anonymous goofballs vie for attention, when the buzz wears off those 500 will be right back at the clubs to see their favorite band again. It’s just background noise. It has always cost a few fans to make more.
I bet the subject band would rather play for their 20,000 than 500 or so. At least while they can. And the reality is no matter how much some anonymous goofballs vie for attention, when the buzz wears off those 500 will be right back at the clubs to see their favorite band again. It’s just background noise. It has always cost a few fans to make more.
Interesting that the article quotes Robbie Robertson about his experience backing Bob Dylan. Levon Helm was so upset by the audiences’ reactions that he eventually left the band – then still known as The Hawks, and not yet The Band – and stopped all musical pursuits for a while, even taking a job working on an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico.
Audience expectations have grown and limited some performers, others continue to mine their their golden oldies. Appreciate the perspective, seems like another oddity of the internet world
I played at a club one time where the whole audience walked out on the opening band. Granted, it was a small audience to begin with, but by the end of the 2nd song, the only people in the place were the bartenders and us (the second band that night).
So, was the audience wrong? What audience? How would you tell them that they're wrong? They're not here....
So, was the audience wrong? What audience? How would you tell them that they're wrong? They're not here....
IMO, the author of the article conflates innovation and exploration with changing to a different, but established, formula.
I can understand why fans would be torqued off if a band did the latter.
Watched the Ramones documentary. Johnny refused to let the band evolve. It’s too bad when fans don’t want bands to grow, also too bad that bands won’t evolve because they are afraid of alienating the fans who supported them early on. As to the OP’s example, I would use Green Day as a guide. Do you want to remain limited, or do you want to culminate your career with American Idiot and a world tour in front of 50,000 fans a night? It might just be human nature that when we like something we don’t want it to change.
