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Subdecay Prometheus VS WMD Super Fatman

megadan

megadan

Jun 10, 2006
3,002
26
Halifax, Nova Scotia
www.myspace.com
#1
I know there's a lot of envelope filter threads kicking around right now but I wonder if any of you filter junkies were able to weigh in on these two pedals.

I sold my Fatman thinking about upgrading to the Super Fatman. But then I caught wind of the Prometheus.

I'm not looking for traditional funk filter sounds. More so whacky noise, LFO features, crazy sounds, static filter sounds, sweeps and swoops and bleeps and bloops.

I like that the SFM can blend and has a lot of knobs :D
But I like the Prometheus step mode (true S&H?) and variable frequency instead of the 'click' switch on the SFM. The Prometheus also sounds less distorted on extreme settings? But that may just be the particular videos.

They are both around the same price and rarity, so I'm torn. I liked the key in on the old Fatman for fuzz before the filter. But the new SFM doesn't have this anyway.

Thoughts? If anyone has clips of either pedal doing crazyness that would be cool too :hyper:
 
#2
I've never played a Super Fatman so I can't directly compare them. But the Prometheus is a very "spacey" and "polite" filter to me. No big volume spikes (not super resonant) which means it isn't a great "dripping wet funk filter" but might work well for your purposes.

The Step filter isn't a true S&H filter but it is very cool and fun to play around with.

One other option is to wait on Conical Johnson's upcoming filter which will have an LFO that will be expression controlled as well as a step mode. Something to think about.
 
#4
The Prometheus is an ota filter (and sounds more) like the Moog and most other synth or 'synthy' filters, whereas the Fatman is more the standard optical style filter like the Qtrons and whatnot. The envelope response on the Prometheus is the best I've played, and it is extremely versatile despite the relative lack of knobs; if it had an expression input, I'd be in love.... but the lack of one keeps on the brink of being sold.

By setting certain knobs to their full CW or CCW position, you can unlock certain features like turning the envelope Off and using it as a stuck/manually swept filter, get regular autowah with choice of 3 waveforms (+all the in-between weird stepped lfo patterns), etc. It is also capable of the wettest downward envelope ever, but not so much its regular upwards envelope.

The SuperFatman's input, blend, etc are quite appealing, but in terms of sonics its the Prometheus alllll the way for me. Also from what I can tell, the SuperFatman's squarewave LFO isn't the most usable, as its too extreme and you can hear the loud popping on each end of the LFO's sweep in most video demos (something you'd normally shave/smooth off with a lag processor..).
 
#6
I've had my prometheus for about a year and I just got a super fatman a few months ago. I agree with most of what's already been said, both aren't very wet filters but they're still tons of fun. The prometheus is one badass filter, its LP/BP/HP modes sound terrific and it doesn't get enough attention, I've only used its step setting at home never live but it does sound cool.

I've only had my super fatman for a few months and am still getting to know it. Like FTP said the square wave is essentially useless, it sounds like an odd click track and I never use it. The LFO is fun and can add cool warbles and such after the envelope sound. It is definitely the quietest filter I've played, I use a boost after it all the time. The BP on mine seems too quiet. I had a key in jack added to mine for next to nothing by Will which was cool and using it is fun.

My two cents! I need to get off my ass and do sound clips, but it's more fun to record my own stuff.
 
#8
fightthepower said:
The Prometheus is an ota filter (and sounds more) like the Moog and most other synth or 'synthy' filters, whereas the Fatman is more the standard optical style filter like the Qtrons and whatnot. The envelope response on the Prometheus is the best I've played, and it is extremely versatile despite the relative lack of knobs; if it had an expression input, I'd be in love.... but the lack of one keeps on the brink of being sold.

By setting certain knobs to their full CW or CCW position, you can unlock certain features like turning the envelope Off and using it as a stuck/manually swept filter, get regular autowah with choice of 3 waveforms (+all the in-between weird stepped lfo patterns), etc. It is also capable of the wettest downward envelope ever, but not so much its regular upwards envelope.

The SuperFatman's input, blend, etc are quite appealing, but in terms of sonics its the Prometheus alllll the way for me. Also from what I can tell, the SuperFatman's squarewave LFO isn't the most usable, as its too extreme and you can hear the loud popping on each end of the LFO's sweep in most video demos (something you'd normally shave/smooth off with a lag processor..).
Click to expand...

I'm actually here looking for another thread about switches of all things, but anyway... the prometheus is NOT an OTA based filter. It's a VCA based filter. It uses one of the few VCA chips still in production, and is primarily used in modular synths, or sometimes adapted to replace IC's in old analog synths. (it's a pain in the ass though)
 
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#9
brian m said:
I'm actually here looking for another thread about switches of all things, but anyway... the prometheus is NOT an OTA based filter. It's a VCA based filter. It uses one of the few VCA chips still in production, and is primarily used in modular synths, or sometimes adapted to replace IC's in old analog synths. (it's a pain in the ass though)
Click to expand...

Good to know, I've read the VCA bit before (in a Proteus thread) but didn't put 2 and 2 together(because I don't really know what Im talking about, yet). I've basically just been throwing the ota bit out based on the sound relative to the other filters on the market, most of the ota ones have a very similar sound and envelope response, although the Prometheus's envelope (which I rave about) has an extra level of touch sensitivity compared to the long list of filters I've had.

From what I've put together thus far, the type of filter(what its based on) has a lot, or at least something to do with the envelope response(ota being snappier and whispier in sound, optical generally more sluggish and gurgly, seemingly less comby but maybe Im getting into something else there); if you're still around, is the Prometheus's touch sensitivity due to being a VCA based filter? I like it whatever it is.
 
#10
fightthepower said:
Good to know, I've read the VCA bit before (in a Proteus thread) but didn't put 2 and 2 together(because I don't really know what Im talking about, yet). I've basically just been throwing the ota bit out based on the sound relative to the other filters on the market, most of the ota ones have a very similar sound and envelope response, although the Prometheus's envelope (which I rave about) has an extra level of touch sensitivity compared to the long list of filters I've had.

From what I've put together thus far, the type of filter(what its based on) has a lot, or at least something to do with the envelope response(ota being snappier and whispier in sound, optical generally more sluggish and gurgly, seemingly less comby but maybe Im getting into something else there); if you're still around, is the Prometheus's touch sensitivity due to being a VCA based filter? I like it whatever it is.
Click to expand...

Not all opto filters are the same. The prometheus uses a biquad filter topology. To make it state variable you need two separate but equal variable resistors, along with 3 opamp stages and some other passive components. In theory opto filters like the Q-tron or mu-tron operate in a very similar way.... but they use opto-isolators instead of a VCA for variable resistance. there are many different topologies for filters. This style of filter is really cool because it's stable along a broad frequency range, doesnt require a ridiculous number of parts, and you have three outputs. HP/BP/LP :)

The typical OTA implementations only produce two filter types. Usually low pass and a bandpass filter with a clean mix. I'm not sure what it's called but i think it's some kind of variation on the ideas from the bi-quad filter.

OTA's and VCA's respond (practically) immediately to voltage. optos depend on an LED to light up, which is a bit slower, but a lot of the actual "speed" can be due to other parts of the circuit as well. You can set up envelopes to be as slow or fast as you want, but the optos will always be a little slower to attack and decay.

Also optos suck up a ton of current from their control voltage. sometimes this leads to faster decays as the voltage falls from it's peak.

Optos are usually fairly linear in response, if not anti-logarithmic. Common OTA's are linear. VCA's are mostly logarithmic, or semi logarithmic. Our ears hear frequency logarithmicly. Sometimes OTA and opto filters add some extra components to kind of make a faux log response.

Typical range on an OTA is 6 octaves. Opto filters are probably about the same, but sometimes sound like they have even less range due to the attempt at faux log response. VCA's were used in synths and would cover filters and oscilators for the whole range of the keyboard from the lowest to higest notes.

The range on the prometheus is from about 11.5khz down to at least 30hz. That's about 9 octaves. I've not tested it down below that though. At some point eventually it just stops and turns off, but i dont know where that actual value is.

I really need to write a blog for this stuff.... that no one would ever read :p
 
#13
So I got the Prometheus today. One word, AWESOME.

I can safely say that I will never need another filter pedal again. So many great sounds: classic funky envelope, amazing sub kick sounds, long synthy sweeps in both step and envelope mode, passive filter sounds. And the step mode is amazing for noise and soundscapes. Fantastic! Works really well with all my basses, from passive p to BEAD Stingray. Throwing a fuzz before it really gives some thick harmonics. I love it!

It will take me a while to work into a band sound but it's a keeper pedal for sure. I think it's the first pedal I've ever bought new, besides my turbotuner!!

I will probably post some noisey sound samples later just for fun.
 
#14
CliffD said:
my super fatman ... is definitely the quietest filter I've played, I use a boost after it all the time. The BP on mine seems too quiet.
Click to expand...

I missed this the first time through; you know that the fatman has internet trim pots for volume, yeah? It sounds like yours might have got turned down. You should be able to boost both the wet and dry volumes from within the pedal :hyper:
 
#16
Here's some ugly clips.

My playing sucks but this thing sounds good :D

Mostly all courtesy of Brown Dog (Fuzz) before, and some flanger and delay after, the Prometheus.

It's subtle but I find it works really well with other effects, I like that.

See if this works as attachments..
 

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#17
And two more...

Again mostly just me playing with different settings and sounds, but there's a decent bit of a bassline with the step filter on that sounds pretty usable in a band situation to me.

Sometime at the end the Memory Boy cranks out some square wave pitchy-ness.
 

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#18
Yes, the Subdecay Prometheus is pure awesome sounding!!! I have one.

I also have another envelope filter I'd like to turn you onto for the more "normal" autowah sounds: The 3Leaf Groove Regulator. I also love the GR, because it sounds "natural" and is very easy to get good sounds without too much need for subtle tweaking, like other filters (and also minus most of the annoying volume spikes).

Congratulations on the Prometheus. I also use it with my analog synth, thanks to its totally awesome range!
 

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