Subway+ Bass DI-Preamp II

[ninjatanzen]

Wondering if the Mesa will have a noticeable tone difference compared to the Genzler Magellan preamp, (which I have).

I'll be curious to hear what users have to say when they directly compare them. Agedhorse did mention the below quote in post #39 from the other thread, if that gives you a hint

Completely different, the Genzler is all Magellan, the Mesa is all Subway. The circuitry is all different, built in different factories by different people. The Magellan is Scott’s and Jeff’s design, the Subway is my design. If you try both, you will see how different they are.

The only similarities are some of the cosmetics and features, which are similar to a LOT of other preamp pedals too.

This is not all that surprising since I designed the circuitry and mechanicals for many Genz Benz products for over 20 years… we have always thought alike.

(from the linked thread here)

 

[zombywoof5050]

Question for @agedhorse :
Does the aux input pass a stereo signal to the headphone output, or does it sum to mono.

 

[bherman]

Ordered mine - not sure that I need it, but interested to see how it performs.

 

[Mark Ambler]

As a Genzler Magellan preamp user, I see it as quite transparent, so I'm guessing the Mesa will have more of a 'baked in' tone. Nice to have a quality alternative to the Genzler.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

Amazing, I always wanted the original but price was a bit steep for me. I'll wait a bit to hear how these are liked and try and pick up a used one.

 

[agedhorse]

The only issue I see here, a minor one, is the input jack on the wrong side, like the old Fuzz Faces.
Odd choice for a modern pedal designed for a modern pedalboard. But the value is incredible for the price.

Had an interesting discussion with Tom Bowlus about this topic. Sharing it below for educational purposes:

In our opinion, it comes from early guitar amps (mostly UK) having the inputs on the right and a right to left signal path. Our supposition is consistent with their driving on the left and their drivers seat being on the right (mirror image to us). Marshall is probably the best example of this with the earlier JTM series like the JTM-45. Being that they got stuck in their own legacy, this continues today.

Even with Mesa, we started out with the input on the right and a right to left signal path, but when Dan started designing the bass products we switched to the input on the left and a left to right signal path. This is what MOST bass amps follow, it's what I have used my entire career, and it's probably because there's a tighter link between the bass market and the pro audio market than with the guitar market which kind of does its own thing (warts and all).

The obvious difference is Fender, which has always followed the American style of input on the left and left to right signal flow.

A quirk with Mesa is that some of our guitar products are one way and some are the other way... and in some cases in high gain amps, the crosstalk was much better one way versus the other. In high gain amps, excessive crosstalk can cause ocillations which are a very issue.

Dang. It’s the Nordy Starlifter all over again.

There are others who follow this left to right path too, mostly higher end preamps like Berganitno, Nordstrom’s, Grace, ISP, Benson, and of course Genzler. If the signal flow is right to left, then it makes sense to have the jacks the other way.

the proud phrase "Made In Petaluma, CA, USA With The World's Finest Materials" on the back is no more ...... not saying it's not a quality product, (i have not test driven it yet) I'm sure it's a good product and good decision for the parent Co.
I wonder if the proud phrase will start disappearing across the board.

No, it may only come up for occasional products that simply can’t be manufactured here at a cost that players are willing (or able) to pay. This represents an infinitesimally small part of our business. In this case one pedal out of an entire bass amp and speaker line.

Wondering if the Mesa will have a noticeable tone difference compared to the Genzler Magellan preamp, (which I have).

Completely different.

Andy posted it is a complete different design than Genzler

It's all Mesa and All Andy

Correct, there is no mistaking the two preamps.

Question for @agedhorse :
Does the aux input pass a stereo signal to the headphone output, or does it sum to mono.

It sums the signal to mono and it remains mono through the headphone output.

As a Genzler Magellan preamp user, I see it as quite transparent, so I'm guessing the Mesa will have more of a 'baked in' tone. Nice to have a quality alternative to the Genzler.

Correct, both are “best of their respective worlds”. (IMO)

 

[logdrum]

he only issue I see here, a minor one, is the input jack on the wrong side, like the old Fuzz Faces.
Odd choice for a modern pedal designed for a modern pedalboard. But the value is incredible for the price.

Yeah., You usually lay your input where the controls are not only as a UI design choice but also to reduce noise - shortest trace to the first gain opamp Also look at consoles and rack units, it is always left to right. There will be more complaints if the controls are made right to left. Also notice that this not have a bypass circuitry. There is a mute

EDIT --- someone already explained I hope. Started the reply in the mid morning. TB is funky looking today for me

I had the same thought when I got the Genzler Magellan Pre.

 

[GTHintz]

Wondering if the Mesa will have a noticeable tone difference compared to the Genzler Magellan preamp, (which I have).

I would expect a genzler to sound like a genzler and mesa to sound like mesa. They can probably emulate each other especially because of the voicing blend on the subway and the color shift on the genzler but I don’t expect that they sound alike.

 

[Bodhi46]

How close is this to the actual subway? I always wanted one but as I live in a apartment and already have a Sisma, justifying another full size amp is tough. Thinking this into the power amp of the sisma to approximate a subway is close enough?

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah., You usually lay your input where the controls are not only as a UI design choice but also to reduce noise - shortest trace to the first gain opamp Also look at consoles and rack units, it is always left to right. There will be more complaints if the controls are made right to left. Also notice that this not have a bypass circuitry. There is a mute

EDIT --- someone already explained I hope. Started the reply in the mid morning. TB is funky looking today for me

Correct on all accounts.

There is no bypass because the very function of this pedal is to be THE preamp, and to bypass it defeats its most fundamental purposes.

I would expect a genzler to sound like a genzler and mesa to sound like mesa. They can probably emulate each other especially because of the voicing blend on the subway and the color shift on the genzler but I don’t expect that they sound alike.

It would be the same as comparing the Subway D-800 to the Magellan 800. Completely different amps, with their similarities and differences, but IMO 2 DIFFERENT flavors of good.

It’s really a great time to be a bass player.

How close is this to the actual subway? I always wanted one but as I live in an apartment and already have a Sisma, justifying another full size amp is tough. Thinking this into the power amp of the sisma to approximate a subway is close enough?

Very, very close to the Subway D-800+ preamp.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Damn, $199?? I was expecting $400-$500. PreOrdered one from Sweetwater and it's like I saved $200-300. Boy math, right?

I don’t know what I got into at Sweetwater but I got 11% off, so it came in at $177.11 Plus $50 in Sweetwater bucks

 

[DJ Bebop]

How close is this to the actual subway? I always wanted one but as I live in an apartment and already have a Sisma, justifying another full size amp is tough. Thinking this into the power amp of the sisma to approximate a subway is close enough?

When I had a Sisma here, I was testing it. It seemed to me that most of the magic was in the preamps. When I ran my WD pre into the Sisma power amp, it sounded more like the WD. And when I ran the Sisma pre into the WD power amp, it sounded more like the Sisma.

Which surprised me because I thought the Sisma sound would be more in the power amp section as that was a different topology, being class G instead of class D and that was touted as the source of their sound. I found that if it was, I wasn’t hearing that much of it when I did my switching up of the preamps. There may have been some differences but I was not hearing it as being a major factor in the sound, as much as the differences in the preamps I thought.

All of this of course was, to me and my ears.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I don’t know what I got into at Sweetwater but I got 11% off, so it came in at $177.11 Plus $50 in Sweetwater bucks

VIP program! Heh. I don't think I've ever received a discount at Sweetwater. Kudos on the score!

 

[ceetee]

Soooo.... Thomann answered. Thomann is clueless.

Maybe some more people could inquire? Just to make them get a clue.

 

[agedhorse]

Soooo.... Thomann answered. Thomann is clueless.

Maybe some more people could inquire? Just to make them get a clue.

Really?

Good grief, they show it arriving in about 2 weeks on their website.

Unfortunately this is entirely out of my control, or even area of expertise. There are “people” for this, but I have made them aware.

 

[ceetee]

Really?

Good grief, they show it arriving in about 2 weeks on their website.

Unfortunately this is entirely out of my control, or even area of expertise. There are “people” for this, but I have made them aware.

I've contacted Thomann Germany. Don't know if that info makes any difference.

Thank you for your service!

 

[Gluvhand]

I don’t know what I got into at Sweetwater but I got 11% off, so it came in at $177.11 Plus $50 in Sweetwater bucks

Same here. Ordered yesterday.

 

[jVilla76]

Just purchased from Sweetwater on my lunch hour today. Can't wait till it gets here!

 

[gstaats]

Couldn't find a link to the manual on the site, otherwise I would have RTFM'd... Does the post-DI out include anykind of cabsim (like the TT-800)?

 

[agedhorse]

Couldn't find a link to the manual on the site, otherwise I would have RTFM'd... Does the post-DI out include anykind of cabsim (like the TT-800)?

Yes, a very mild version of the Subway 115 cabinet.

I posted a draft copy of the manual in the Subway club thread (I think that’s where it is). The IT guys are working on getting the correct manual posted.