Right? It seems like a one-stop-shop for an introduction and deep dive into all three. The next time someone knee-jerks the old tired line "where'd you get that information? The internet?" I'm going to ream them about platitudes.
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Summoning Elite Troubleshooters
- Thread starter Crosscheck67
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- 60 cycle hum emg emi ground hum
I don’t have much to contribute but I did enjoy reading this entire thread. Much learned!
My 5 cents would be that twisting the pickup pairs might work in this context the way it does in the industrial contexts I do most of my analog wiring in.
My 5 cents would be that twisting the pickup pairs might work in this context the way it does in the industrial contexts I do most of my analog wiring in.
Dang, man. I go away for some R&R with my wife, come back, and there's no obvious, easy, "something we overlooked", cure to this? Just...dang, man... 
I'd considered that earlier, too. Like you said, maybe just twisting the the white-jacketed signal wires (disregard red power wire) would do it. Here's a pic of the harnesses:
Even thought about hacking it into a twisted shielded pair. But, I saw that the ground wire in each harness (black wire) serves 3 functions and I can't figure a way to hack the components to separate/isolate those function to do that. Here's what the black wire does:
-Power ground: The DC voltage input (red) is using it as a power ground.
-Signal ground: The hot signal output is using it as a ground reference.
-Component shielding ground: EMI bleed-off from the component's metal cases. @Crosscheck67 was nice enough to meter it out and verify the metal cases are connected to the grounding pins of each component.
Something just tells me I'd feel better if the shield was separated from the other two functions at the component end, finally connecting at one point only, the output jack. Surgery on the components seems to be the only way to isolated any of those functions, and that's just plain reedikulus LOL.
I'd considered that earlier, too. Like you said, maybe just twisting the the white-jacketed signal wires (disregard red power wire) would do it. Here's a pic of the harnesses:
Even thought about hacking it into a twisted shielded pair. But, I saw that the ground wire in each harness (black wire) serves 3 functions and I can't figure a way to hack the components to separate/isolate those function to do that. Here's what the black wire does:
-Power ground: The DC voltage input (red) is using it as a power ground.
-Signal ground: The hot signal output is using it as a ground reference.
-Component shielding ground: EMI bleed-off from the component's metal cases. @Crosscheck67 was nice enough to meter it out and verify the metal cases are connected to the grounding pins of each component.
Something just tells me I'd feel better if the shield was separated from the other two functions at the component end, finally connecting at one point only, the output jack. Surgery on the components seems to be the only way to isolated any of those functions, and that's just plain reedikulus LOL.
Ya after everything that we've tried, weighing the effort-to-return ratios, and keeping in mind that another brand might yield the intended purpose here (great tone, no noise), I'm taking the @bdplaid approach to cut loose what's been causing headaches. I was really digging the intestinal fortitude of the 96 art when it comes to resisting the EMI, so I'm going to try those out along with an Audere pre.Dang, man. I go away for some R&R with my wife, come back, and there's no obvious, easy, "something we overlooked", cure to this? Just...dang, man...
I'd considered that earlier, too. Like you said, maybe just twisting the the white-jacketed signal wires (disregard red power wire) would do it.
Even thought about hacking it into a twisted shielded pair. But, I saw that the ground wire in each harness (black wire) serves 3 functions and I can't figure a way to hack the components to separate/isolate those function to do that. Here's what the black wire does:
-Power ground: The DC voltage input (red) is using it as a power ground.
-Signal ground: The hot signal output is using it as a ground reference.
-Component shielding ground: EMI bleed-off from the component's metal cases. @Crosscheck67 was nice enough to meter it out and verify the metal cases are connected to the grounding pins of each component.
Something just tells me I'd feel better if the shield was separated from the other two functions at the component end, finally connecting at one point only, the output jack. Surgery on the components seems to be the only way to isolated any of those functions, and that's just plain reedikulus LOL.
Things might be different if we were all together, having a garage party around the workbench with all tools and meters on hand...and plenty of Guinness. In that context I'd be up for testing any method. But I had to stop and really think about how much I like the tone from my EMGs apart from the noise. They sound good, but I have to admit they sound muffled in comparison to the ones from EMG circa '96. If I was in love with the tone, I might have the patience to keep trying suggestions. As things are, I'm only in like with the tone
P.S. I will of course post a quick demo of the new config when I procure the components...It would be a disservice to the thread not to.
Thanks for the update. I hope you like the audere. The Z thing is very cool in my book, as it changes the resonant frequency of the pickups making them respond completely differently depending on where the switch is set.
I also opted for the three band. Any more than that confuses me.
I was also impressed with the 96art pickups, although somehow in my head you'd get the same EMI rejection from a Bartolini. Don't hold me to that. And I recall you said you didn't like them anyway, so that's that. I think it revolves around having the pickup poles grounded.
Aside from that, I was also wondering what Lace pickups would sound like, the ones that are non magnetic? Just a thought. I have a set and they were OK but didn't wow me.
Best of luck!
Ps: Murphy's is better than Guinness, but you can only get it in Ireland. So there's that.
I also opted for the three band. Any more than that confuses me.
I was also impressed with the 96art pickups, although somehow in my head you'd get the same EMI rejection from a Bartolini. Don't hold me to that. And I recall you said you didn't like them anyway, so that's that. I think it revolves around having the pickup poles grounded.
Aside from that, I was also wondering what Lace pickups would sound like, the ones that are non magnetic? Just a thought. I have a set and they were OK but didn't wow me.
Best of luck!
Ps: Murphy's is better than Guinness, but you can only get it in Ireland. So there's that.
Ok so much going on here. First things first, if it's better than Guinness, I have to try it. Ireland is on my bucket list. I play Irish music with a friend and his dad once a month, and Guinness is as important to my performance as my strings. One of the guys I play hockey with went to Ireland and said a Guinness at the factory will ruin it for me in the States.
Regarding Audere, I was looking at the different configs on their site and noticed a weird consistency. No matter how many holes you select that you have, they always recommend a setup with one pot less. So if you say you have three holes drilled, they show a two pot solution. Does that have something to do with their site kind of looking like it was built on html 4? Or am I just not understanding something?
With the Bartolinis, I noticed on my Cast Iron test, they had only a little less hum than EMG, but more low end. You'd probably have to have some decent headphones on to hear it. The 96 art had far less than the other two, so that's what made me land there.
Guiness st the factory is probably true. Murphy's is available in cans here, and it's nothing like it in Ireland. The difference between the two is that Murphy's is smoother. Not a hint of bitterness. And it's rather low alcohol. At least by Irish standards.
Audere : it might be because they all come with a battery level check led. You need someplace to put it. Although, I guess you could just bury it in the control cavity. If you get the Z tone model, there is a switch for that.
I got mine on a jazz bass plate which made it super easy
Audere : it might be because they all come with a battery level check led. You need someplace to put it. Although, I guess you could just bury it in the control cavity. If you get the Z tone model, there is a switch for that.
I got mine on a jazz bass plate which made it super easy
I myself am ambivalent about Barts. I've used them pt, and find them to be finest quality. But sometimes they sound awesome, sometimes meh. I can't predict when they will be either. Although there was one bass with Bart P's that was a real standout. So, idk.
Ok I see now, that switch might be my answer.
With Murphy's: even smoother? Now I really have to try it. That's the main reason I drink Guinness. It isn't watery like Porters and isn't acidic like IPAs.
I dislike beer and don't drink. But Murphys is different, kinda like food. Definitely similar to Guinness, but IMO fuller bodied with no bite of any kind. Guinness here is OK, but I really need it to be real draught to taste decent to me.
See this thread has you covered in all things important; EMI, RF, power distribution, pickups from multiple brands, shielding, tests, metering, diagrams, tonal characteristics, how-tos for beginners, DIY filtering, deep dives for the advanced, and beer.
I've had Murphy's on tap here in the states, but it's definitely different in Ireland! Murphy's and Guinness are about the only stouts I like. Now I'm curious what kind of Irish music you play - traditional stuff or something else? If it's traditional, are you playing with a solid body electric bass or something else?
I think the holes count vs pots count thing for the Audere preamps is thanks to the Z switch taking up a spot.
I think we covered this earlier in the thread but if you go with an Audere preamp, you need to be sure your shielding all connects directly to the jack, or at least a ground on the output side of the preamp, and not to the "ground" wire for the pickup connection. Audere preamps basically use a DC voltage for the ground side of the pickups so it has a voltage relative to actual ground at the output jack. If you connect shielding (including the shield wire from the pickups) to the pickup connections you'll have all kinds of problems and/or extra noise. At best if the shielding is floating otherwise it'll be really noisy, and at worst if the shielding is also actually grounded it'll make the preamp behave really wonky (turning controls up reduces output, stuff like that).
I think the holes count vs pots count thing for the Audere preamps is thanks to the Z switch taking up a spot.
I think we covered this earlier in the thread but if you go with an Audere preamp, you need to be sure your shielding all connects directly to the jack, or at least a ground on the output side of the preamp, and not to the "ground" wire for the pickup connection. Audere preamps basically use a DC voltage for the ground side of the pickups so it has a voltage relative to actual ground at the output jack. If you connect shielding (including the shield wire from the pickups) to the pickup connections you'll have all kinds of problems and/or extra noise. At best if the shielding is floating otherwise it'll be really noisy, and at worst if the shielding is also actually grounded it'll make the preamp behave really wonky (turning controls up reduces output, stuff like that).
I wouldn't classify our music as traditional Irish (which I imagine as the bar band in Rudy) especially since we haven't had a fiddle player since before I joined, but I also wouldn't say I'm an expert on the subject. I never really thought much about Irish music until I discovered how fun it is to play. My friend plays acoustic and blows harp, his dad has this really cool (and deceivingly heavy) small acoustic/electric guitar that has a banjo setting, they both sing, another friend plays keys and melodica, then I play my fretless. When there's room, we have drums. We do songs like Johnny Tarr, Rocky Road to Dublin, The Night Paddy Murphy Died, Crooked Jack, Black and Tans, Wild Rover, Stepping Out Mary, and a Scottish song called Queen of Old Argyle. Those are my favs anyway.
Ya I was going through the configs and a diagram including the Z switch. Extra hole is absolutely for that. I'm really leaning towards the V/B, HM/LM, T/B stacked pots, with the Z. There's a lot to the wiring and if I wrap my head around it now, I will forget it by the time I have the components in hand. But I'll be visualizing as much about grounding as I can until then.
As the last round of photos show (mostly), my cavities are the main control, both pickups, battery box, and a ground soldered from the main cavity to the bridge, specifically laid on the inside corner on a strip of copper shielding, soldered to the top lip, mashed under the top bridge plate. All cavities are connected with a copper tube soldered at both ends, with a ground wire through each, and that soldered at both ends.
Given that, I'm trying to flesh out what you mean by connecting each cavity directly to the jack. You have an alternate method as well, but after all this effort I'm only interested in the "absolute best" method
. Do I run an additional ground from each cavity directly to the jack, or replace the current grounds with ones going to the jack, or other? If so, would twisting and tinning them together to a slightly larger short wire going to the jack be optimal?
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I grew up on the Chieftains and the Dubliners, and then the Pogues once I hit my angry early adult years. So I can relate to the music you're talking about. My brother plays a lot of that type Irish music and we've collaborated on a couple instruments for it, but I don't want to get too far off on a tangent here!
Regarding that preamp. The different pieces of shielding don't have to be independently connected to the jack - you can do "normal" shielding where pickup cavities are connected to the control cavity and then the control cavity is grounded. No change in the shielding on the bass.
Backing up a bit - preamps will have a "+" and "-" connection for the pickups. In most preamps, the "-" terminal or wire is just ground. This is convenient for pickups that are shielded since you can connect the shielding right to the same wire as the negative side of the coil. This also matches convention for passive instruments, where ground is ground is ground, and people are used to connecting the ground side of the coil to the same spot as they're connecting other grounds (like shielding). All grounds - shielding, bridge, coil, etc - are at the same potential and you can connect them however it's convenient.
But in the Audere preamps, the "-" for the pickups is held at a DC voltage higher than ground, and needs to have only the coil lead connected to it - not any shielding or anything meant to be connected to ground. The coil is artificially held up above ground, so there isn't an actual ground on the negative side of the coil. If you unintentionally connect things to that wire that are supposed to be at the actual ground, you'll have problems.
So - when you have a pickup that has a separate lead for the shielding (like the 96 art pickups do, and pretty much any modern pickup with shielded 4 conductor wiring that has a bare ground wire in the cable), you need to connect only the coil wires to the preamp, and the shield wire gets connected separately to something that's actually grounded, like the jack or whatever else is grounded. That's different than a normal preamp, where you might connect that pickup shield wire and the negative wire from the coil to the same spot.
This is all described on their website but it's kinda hard to find some times.
I get why Audere do their preamps like this, but it does make for some potential confusion. And it means that they're not always totally compatible with pickups that have shielding that's run on one of the coil leads, although such pickups are not as common as they used to be. If you have a pickup that has obvious shielding (i.e. you can see copper tape or a metal plate) AND it has just two conductors, or a single conductor with a shielded braid, that pickup might be noisy with an Audere preamp, since the shielding will be in the pickup circuit instead of grounded.
Regarding that preamp. The different pieces of shielding don't have to be independently connected to the jack - you can do "normal" shielding where pickup cavities are connected to the control cavity and then the control cavity is grounded. No change in the shielding on the bass.
Backing up a bit - preamps will have a "+" and "-" connection for the pickups. In most preamps, the "-" terminal or wire is just ground. This is convenient for pickups that are shielded since you can connect the shielding right to the same wire as the negative side of the coil. This also matches convention for passive instruments, where ground is ground is ground, and people are used to connecting the ground side of the coil to the same spot as they're connecting other grounds (like shielding). All grounds - shielding, bridge, coil, etc - are at the same potential and you can connect them however it's convenient.
But in the Audere preamps, the "-" for the pickups is held at a DC voltage higher than ground, and needs to have only the coil lead connected to it - not any shielding or anything meant to be connected to ground. The coil is artificially held up above ground, so there isn't an actual ground on the negative side of the coil. If you unintentionally connect things to that wire that are supposed to be at the actual ground, you'll have problems.
So - when you have a pickup that has a separate lead for the shielding (like the 96 art pickups do, and pretty much any modern pickup with shielded 4 conductor wiring that has a bare ground wire in the cable), you need to connect only the coil wires to the preamp, and the shield wire gets connected separately to something that's actually grounded, like the jack or whatever else is grounded. That's different than a normal preamp, where you might connect that pickup shield wire and the negative wire from the coil to the same spot.
This is all described on their website but it's kinda hard to find some times.
I get why Audere do their preamps like this, but it does make for some potential confusion. And it means that they're not always totally compatible with pickups that have shielding that's run on one of the coil leads, although such pickups are not as common as they used to be. If you have a pickup that has obvious shielding (i.e. you can see copper tape or a metal plate) AND it has just two conductors, or a single conductor with a shielded braid, that pickup might be noisy with an Audere preamp, since the shielding will be in the pickup circuit instead of grounded.
Man there's so much to this! I'm sure it will sink in when I go hands-on. That's typically where I connect dots. Can't say it enough how happy I am to have landed in this forum.
The instructions they provide are pretty good, if you follow them then you don't have to worry about this mumbo jumbo and it'll all work just fine!
Yes, I found the instructions rather comprehensive. I like the design of the preamp as it provides screw terminals for pickup connections and a means to tune the Z option.
