SWR Experts -- He'p a Brother Out!

[Thor]

... so the pro series stuff is not cutting corners as I see yet.

One can only hope ...

My only concern is that the speaker is the proper factory unit for this model with the right impedance. It definitely looks like a quality speaker -- a good cast frame

That is a plus

and a gigundo magnet structure -- but I've always had the nagging suspicion that this speaker has been replaced, because there was a good sized store ding in the chrome grill right square over the edge of the cone where it should have been impossible not to tear it if it'd been whacked good and hard.

I just don't want it to have been replaced with something from a Workingman or some other cheaper unit, or an eight-Ohm driver.

The resistance is easily measured ...

Almost every amp tech and gear salesman I know will steadfastly refuse to believe that's a four-Ohm driver in the cab, because four-Ohm drivers are so rare and the Son of Bertha is eight-Ohm -- but it is.

I have a 4 ohm 10 on my workbench right now, they have their applications.

Anyhow...I wrote to that Shannon fellow about this, so with any luck I'll hear back.

I for one will be really interested in their reply.
Please post it when you hear. Thanks!

 

[Bongolation]

The resistance is easily measured ...

Funny, I was reading something about this the other day, but didn't pay any attention, other than to note that the described procedure for determining driver impedance was a good deal more complicated than I had thought. It wasn't a matter of just hooking up a multimeter to the terminals. There was some other rigmarole.

Although...I had a little 4-Ohm speaker here in the office and I put the multimeter on it and it measures...uh...four Ohms.

Of course, I put the Black Beauty back together in the meantime so the cat would get over her episode.

 

[Bongolation]

I for one will be really interested in their reply.
Please post it when you hear. Thanks!

Here you go:

Hi,

Thanks for your inquiry and your interest in Fender Musical Instruments.

I'm no longer a part of the Consumer Relations Team, but I've forwarded
your inquiry to our Consumer Relations Email Representative at
[email protected]. They'll be happy to help.

If you need to contact someone as quickly as possible, you can call the
Consumer Relations Department at 480-596-7195.

Thanks again for choosing Fender,

John Shannon
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.

 

[Bongolation]

Not having an insider, then, I've forwarded my original message to [email protected] and we'll see if it gets answered by Labor Day.

 

[Funkengrooven]

He was moved...Hmmm....

 

[Thor]

Funny, I was reading something about this the other day, but didn't pay any attention, other than to note that the described procedure for determining driver impedance was a good deal more complicated than I had thought. It wasn't a matter of just hooking up a multimeter to the terminals. There was some other rigmarole.

Although...I had a little 4-Ohm speaker here in the office and I put the multimeter on it and it measures...uh...four Ohms.

Of course, I put the Black Beauty back together in the meantime so the cat would get over her episode.

The concept of 'impedance' is more than electrical resistance.
Rather than explain the technicalities, I refer you to
'The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook' by Vance Dickason,
who has written a very readable, though technical book
on the subject. You will find mechanical parameters do
factor in, and drivers do exhibit different electrical properties
at different frequencies. All thrown in to help confuse poor
laymen like myself.

The 'electrical resistance' is easily measured though, as you
noted, to help you determine if it is 4 or 8 ohm with some
reliability.

 

[MattLplaysBass]

whenever i've salled the fender customer service #, i've been on hold for quite awhile. i've dealt with a guy named gil a few times though and he was very helpful (although it was never technical stuff, so i cannot vouch for that).

 

[Bongolation]

The concept of 'impedance' is more than electrical resistance.

Oh, I understand all that. It's an extremely complex calculation.

The 'electrical resistance' is easily measured though, as you
noted, to help you determine if it is 4 or 8 ohm with some
reliability.

That was the part I found odd, that this page was insisting that this simple measurement would not give a reliable indication of the nominal impedance of a driver. There was some other monkey-motion you had to go through according to the writer.

Of course, there are a whole lot of people who have to do everything the hardest, most anal-retentive way possible. [shrug]

 

[IvanMike]

Sad sad sad stuff..................

Well, I guess Thor pretty much confirmed all of my worst fears about SWR "post-fender"

My thoughts?

Stick with Pre-fender SWR. Particularly the pro series, and better yet, the original late 80's to mid 90's stuff. At least you knew what you were getting.

:scowl:

 

[Thor]

Sad sad sad stuff..................

Well, I guess Thor pretty much confirmed all of my worst fears about SWR "post-fender"

My thoughts?

Stick with Pre-fender SWR. Particularly the pro series, and better yet, the original late 80's to mid 90's stuff. At least you knew what you were getting.

:scowl:

For the record, let me point out that my dissertation on
the Panasonic 15 was strictly my opinion.

The only factual evidence I have is on the 10" driver.

That being said, I will relate that I have been a 'corporate'
sales person and sales manager all my career. I am relatively
familiar with what happens at small companies when they
get gobbled up by corporate giants that are run by financial
types with little understanding of product quality and value.

Ultimately, the mission to provide quality and value is
subjugated to the mission to provide financial return to
the bulk of the shareholders, who have often no investment
in the trade reputation of the product. The products then
spiral downward until they find the lowest common
denominator of the cheapest possible value and the drive
becomes to meet sales volume goals. Those goals are
usually price driven by that point.

An answer from SWR as to whether this is the factory loaded
driver would be very illuminating at this point, I am dying to
find out. I may just have to call myself to appease my
curiousity.

So, errrr, Mike, when is Bag-End goig to sell out for the big
bucks?

 

[Bongolation]

An answer from SWR as to whether this is the factory loaded
driver would be very illuminating at this point, I am dying to
find out. I may just have to call myself to appease my
curiousity.

Well, if you know anyone to call, by all means, go ahead on. I don't. Most of this thread has been people's uninformed wild guesses and tangential opinions, so I don't think we're going to get any information of value short of finding it out from SWR. All the data I have on it is in the first post, so write it down and give your contact a call.

They haven't replied to my e-mail yet.

BTW, assuming that a simple measurement of DC resistance is a reliable indicator of a driver's nominal impedance, this is indeed a four-Ohm driver. That is leading me to suspect that this actually is the factory unit.

One thing that I find interesting is that the reflexive presumption throughout the thread is that this is a poor quality driver. I don't get that impression having examined it.

 

[Frankie Fender]

One thing that I find interesting is that the reflexive presumption throughout the thread is that this is a poor quality driver. I don't get that impression having examined it.

Well, considering the original SWR used Bag End and PAS drivers in their Pro line in the past, to me there is no comparison in offering a driver made in Taiwan and passing it off at Pro prices, I mean we're not talking the LA series here, are we?

 

[IvanMike]

So, errrr, Mike, when is Bag-End goig to sell out for the big
bucks?

I dunno, but when/If they do, I'll be watching their quality like a hawk and I'll be the first to jump ship if it sufferes.

FWIW, I like Bag End and all, but I don't think It's better than about 20 or so other manufacturer's stuff. Heck, I'm still a big fan of the original SWR stuff after all of these years. What does Irk me is when a company gets sold out AND the quality goes to heck. Double that for cusomer service going downhill. In fact, the sad reports of SWR's "fenderized" CS tick me off far more than the reports of poor quality.

 

[Thor]

Ok, I called SWR at 480-596-9690 and spoke to Chuck in
Customer service. I explained I had an issue, and wanted to
see if this was the factory loaded driver.

He said, after looking up the computer specs that they only
idenify it by their own part number on their computer, not
the driver manufacturers. However, their part number,
number 006 7090 000 for the 4 ohm driver, does NOT
appear on the actual driver itself.

This is inconclusive, to say the least.

However, I still find it highly unlikely that a 15" BB driver
would get blown on the sales floor and replaced with something else. I truly suspect this is the factory loaded
driver.

Withe regard to the 'nominal impedance' a discussion of this
can be found at the link Funkengrooven provided
http://www.tedweber.com/
in the 'Other info' in the menu on the left ...
a small portion is quoted here:

Context: What's the impedance of this speaker?
Description: The impedance of the speaker is the mathematical combination of reactance and resistance at a particular frequency. Most speakers used in the music business are either 4, 8, or 16 Ohm speakers. A simple way to check the impedance is to measure the DC resistance of the voice coil with a Volt-Ohmeter. If it measures more than 4 ohms but less than 8 Ohms, you call it an 8 Ohm speaker. Same for the 8 to 16. For more information on Impedance or Z, see our Let's Talk Speakers Q & A page.

This should suffice for IDENTIFICATION purposes.

Not exactly what you wanted to find out, but that is
the Fender Customer Service answer.

 

[Bongolation]

Ok, I called SWR at 480-596-9690 and spoke to Chuck in
Customer service. I explained I had an issue, and wanted to
see if this was the factory loaded driver.

He said, after looking up the computer specs that they only
idenify it by their own part number on their computer, not
the driver manufacturers. However, their part number,
number 006 7090 000 for the 4 ohm driver, does NOT
appear on the actual driver itself.

This is inconclusive, to say the least.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that they didn't tag components unless they went into inventory stock rather than production line use straight off the pallet.

Still, I think it's pretty weird that they don't know what speakers go into their own amps, don't you?

Thanks for calling. I went to GC today to try to get to the bottom of it with my guy there who was off, naturally. The other meatstick there was just hopeless, so I didn't even bother. I was hoping that they still had the Son of Bertha that was there when I went in last time and I could compare some very distinctive external points common to this speaker. Naturally, they sold it.

However, I still find it highly unlikely that a 15" BB driver
would get blown on the sales floor and replaced with something else.

No, remember, I said that I thought the original had probably had been physically damaged by accident, not blown, based on a pretty bad grill ding right over the edge of the cone. It's hard to picture how they avoided it, if not. They blow a lot of speakers on the sales floor there, though, but usually in little guitar amps that kids plug basses into and crank up. I had to listen to one of the old managers there rant on about this at great length once after showing me an example.

My suspicion was that this was just some speaker they put in when they couldn't get the right one from Fender. Remember all the trouble that people here have had in the past with warranty repair because of inadequate stocks of replacement parts at Fender for SWR stuff.

I truly suspect this is the factory loaded driver.

I am too, particularly after seeing that it was indeed a four-Ohm driver. It superficially looks like the same driver that I saw in the Son of Bertha, which is the same unit in eight Ohms.

Not exactly what you wanted to find out, but that is
the Fender Customer Service answer.

Wait, I thought the Fender Customer Service answer was, "Your call is important to us! Please continue to hold!"

I'm still curious about this. Maybe around Christmas, I'll get some e-mail from SWR giving some long drawn-out answer, I dunno. Probably they'll just ignore it.

As I said, the speaker is not a bad one or some really cheap import junker like I've seen in some SLM cabs, but rather a reasonably high-end-looking piece. If this is one is indeed an "SWR custom driver" made to their specs as claimed, rather than a standard aftermarket speaker, I don't see that it makes much difference what large contractor makes it, Eminence or Panasonic or whoever, except for price.

That was never my concern. What I wanted to be sure of was that this was the driver that SWR said belonged in the amp and not some unsuitable replacement.

 

[Dr. PhunkyPants]

No doubt. Customer Service for SWR product has been *hugely* downgraded with their aquisition by Fender. Also, all the swr vintage product info has now gone missing from their website with the new makeover. Fawkers.

OH MY GOD, YOU'RE RIGHT!!!

That SUCKS!

 

[Chef]

Yeah it does...I liked reading specs of the old stuff, especially when it pops up for sale

SWR, if you're reading this, you're losing me-and I'm one of the guys you want to keep! I have 4 different pieces of high end swr stuff that I paid *well* over $1,000 per piece for, and bought it all new.

Again, you're losing me!

(yeah, I cc'd these words, and this thread to their customer service email)

 

[Bongolation]

SWR, if you're reading this, you're losing me-and I'm one of the guys you want to keep! I have 4 different pieces of high end swr stuff that I paid *well* over $1,000 per piece for, and bought it all new.

My suspicion is that FMIC makes far more money from the Indonesian contract LA Series stuff than they ever will from the Professional Series product. While I don't know the specifics for SWR, I do know that a lot of high-end product (and not just music gear) from some manufacturers isn't even profitable, but is just there to create cachet for their bottom-end stuff which can be sold at higher prices because of the name association with the fancy line.

 

[Bongolation]

FWIW, after a week I've received no response about this from either FMIC or SWR so-called "customer service,"though e-mail requests were sent to both.

They simply ignore e-mail. This is, I believe, the third time SWR has totally blown off customer service mail from me, and they have never, ever responded to a request.

 

[Thor]

Now *THATS* a surprise.

Make the phone call I guess.