T.C.Electronic is dead to me. I now boycott them.

[bongomania]

Edit: this was in direct response to a post that has been deleted.

Not appreciated, man. Let me tell you something about myself. I cannot stand to be "walked over" like a doormat, and I see other people letting themselves get stepped on all the time, and it pisses me off that nobody is standing up to the arrogant jerk that is doing the walking. That's another phenomenon that happens here on TB too much, is when some arrogant power tripper belittles and smears anyone that disagrees with him, and most people just look the other way.

That is 100% of my motivation when I "raise a stink". It is not because I think my individual opinion is so important for its own sake--in each case it is because the subject of my stink has decided that they can ignore, belittle, and blow off everyone's disagreeing opinion. And they just made the mistake of doing it to someone who will not take it lying down.

 

[mike_v_s]

Not appreciated, man. Let me tell you something about myself. I cannot stand to be "walked over" like a doormat, and I see other people letting themselves get stepped on all the time, and it pisses me off that nobody is standing up to the arrogant jerk that is doing the walking. That's another phenomenon that happens here on TB too much, is when some arrogant power tripper belittles and smears anyone that disagrees with him, and most people just look the other way.

That is 100% of my motivation when I "raise a stink". It is not because I think my individual opinion is so important for its own sake--in each case it is because the subject of my stink has decided that they can ignore, belittle, and blow off everyone's disagreeing opinion. And they just made the mistake of doing it to someone who will not take it lying down.

While you might not be satisfied with their solution, one was offered: return the pedal. That's not walking over you like a doormat, that's giving you an "out", a conclusive end to your problems with the pedal. You're not satisfied with a product or the way it works? You get your money back and buy something else. It got to where it is because you didn't want to return the product. I find that baffling. What did you expect them to do? Redesign it over the phone to your specs?

Did TCE really "ignore, belittle, and blow off everyone's disagreeing opinion"? No. They asked you to return a pedal that you had told them you were dissatisfied with.

Mike

 

[bongomania]

While you might not be satisfied with their solution, one was offered: return the pedal. That's not walking over you like a doormat, that's giving you an "out", a conclusive end to your problems with the pedal. You're not satisfied with a product of the way it works? You get your money back and buy something else. It got to where it is because you didn't want to return the product.

False. I told them from the beginning that wanted to return the pedal. But I did not want to "just" send it back to the retailer and let it end there, because I wanted to know whether the unit was defective or normative; and if it was normative, I wanted to find out why. My initial post to them essentially boiled down to "I would like to send this pedal to you directly so I can talk with one of your engineers about what is or is not going on with it." And the reason I needed to know some "reason" is because I was going to publish a review. There have been ten or a dozen times where I have bought a pedal that worked/sounded suspiciously bad, and I "had to" buy one or even two more of the same pedal just to find out the real deal. That gets frustrating and expensive--why can't the manufacturer talk to me about it in a reasonable manner?

Did TCE really "ignore, belittle, and blow off everyone's disagreeing opinion"?

That's a shady debate move there Mike... Not worthy of you. The obvious logic is that when I wrote to them I was just one random customer. They didn't pick me out for special treatment.

 

[mike_v_s]

False. I told them from the beginning that wanted to return the pedal. But I did not want to "just" send it back to the retailer and let it end there, because I wanted to know whether the unit was defective or normative; and if it was normative, I wanted to find out why. My initial post to them essentially boiled down to "I would like to send this pedal to you directly so I can talk with one of your engineers about what is or is not going on with it." And the reason I needed to know some "reason" is because I was going to publish a review. There have been ten or a dozen times where I have bought a pedal that worked/sounded suspiciously bad, and I "had to" buy one or even two more of the same pedal just to find out the real deal. That gets frustrating and expensive--why can't the manufacturer talk to me about it in a reasonable manner?

OK, it got to where it is because you wanted to return the pedal outside of the normal parameters of their return process. While I'm not claiming stellar customer service on their part, I don't see it as criminal.

That's a shady debate move there Mike... Not worthy of you. The obvious logic is that when I wrote to them I was just one random customer. They didn't pick me out for special treatment.

That wasn't a debate move; I directly quoted you. If you feel it's out of place, so be it, but I quoted it because it seemed a little dramatic.

Look. Will I think twice about buying this pedal based on a bad review? Yeah. But their solution to the "I've bought a paperweight with your name on it" problem is one I don't take issue with. If I'm stuck with a bum piece of equipment, THEN I'm pissed.

Mike

 

[Maiden Bass]

I'm with you Bongo, I had some issues with them in the past. I will never buy anything TC again in my lifetime!

Oh and thanks for the compressor reviews btw!

 

[Jim C]

False. I told them from the beginning that wanted to return the pedal. But I did not want to "just" send it back to the retailer and let it end there, because I wanted to know whether the unit was defective or normative; and if it was normative, I wanted to find out why. My initial post to them essentially boiled down to "I would like to send this pedal to you directly so I can talk with one of your engineers about what is or is not going on with it." And the reason I needed to know some "reason" is because I was going to publish a review. There have been ten or a dozen times where I have bought a pedal that worked/sounded suspiciously bad, and I "had to" buy one or even two more of the same pedal just to find out the real deal. That gets frustrating and expensive--why can't the manufacturer talk to me about it in a reasonable manner?

Most big companies don't have the corporate culture in place (especially international ones) to allow end users access to the engineering staff. The engineers design and the marketing people communicate. The fact that your doing a review for your blog and this board probably makes the request worse for them; rarely does a large company with a large infrastructure benefit from a personal engineering request from an individual. Many of us have seen that from SWR and Ampeg; both of whom I respect and neither of which would return a simple non confrontational email.

Clearly, you are looking for companies that can field engineering questions from individuals; TC is not the company for you.

Do know that they set the recording world on its' ear when they introduced their Finalizer device which was years ahead of the competition. They got some engineering chops but doesn't sound like the CS service is something they want to improve on.

 

[Silent Fly]

As by miracle... the TC Electronic NR-1 Nova Reverb of one of my customers died today. It simply doesn't switch on (the power supply works).

The pedal is still under warranty - I look forward to see how the customer service is here in the UK.

I'll keep you posted.
---------------

Regarding the fact the TCE will or will not be damaged by this thread, I think it will. The point is if it will be damaged significantly.

In the balance sheet, TCE management just need to balance CS with marketing/advertising. If the increase of revenues due to more marketing/advertising balances the revenues lost by poor CS I don't think they will care much.

I hope TCE is not turning in what Steve Jobs describes as "vanilla companies":
"They sort of turn into vanilla companies. They add a lot of layers of management. They get really into process rather than result, rather than products. They lose touch with their customers. Their soul goes away”.

 

[Silent Fly]

Most big companies don't have the corporate culture in place (especially international ones) to allow end users access to the engineering staff.(...)

I suspect it has more to do with costs. 1 hour of an engineer costs far more than 1 hour of a person in a call centre.

 

[PhatBasstard]

A big point that is lost here (and one of the things Bongomania was trying to avoid) is TCE's crappy response of "just return it to the retailer". Let them deal with it. We wash our hands of it. Maybe the problem will go away.

As a retailer, I would be a little wary of carrying a brand that not only has bad/rude CS, but can't even confirm the piece exists!?!?!? Are you freaking kidding me?!?
And then, on top of that, rather than trying to help, tells the customer to just drop it in my lap. Have a nice day.

 

[RCCollins]

i agree that this is something beyond bad CS

 

[rasthedoctor]

It will not.




To you it seems but my comments are a reality.






Do you think Bongo's complaint has been the first in TCE's history?




Until Bongo takes me up on my offer to help(remember I did inform him publicly that I can help him with his situation). I will just continue to observe TCE not being affected by his public complaint.

The "reality" is you're being rude, whether or not what you say is truthful - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I can't tell if you're just arrogant, trolling (I know you're not A troll, since you're a regular) or incredibly ignorant regarding basic business practices and principles. cheapbasslovin was stating a fact. You are stating an opinion. There is a fundamental difference. I would be THRILLED to hear your rebuttal to his and my post on how a for-profit business, any for-profit business, can succeed if it does not satisfy any of its customers. Please feel free to provide specific examples.

Through your statements and insinuations that you know TCE's people at high levels, you have, to me and perhaps others, assumed TCE's mantle. Now back it up or continue doing the company you endorse a disservice. At this point, your endorsement, comments and lack of any valid argument or facts is more detrimental to my, and again, I'd imagine other's, opinion of TCE.

I don't even care that much about TCE specifically, I just think it's messed up that some shill is in here claiming that a company he actively endorses has somehow achieved the impossible in order to invalidate a customer's complaint.

 

[PhatBasstard]

The "reality" is you're being rude, whether or not what you say is truthful - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I can't tell if you're just arrogant, trolling (I know you're not A troll, since you're a regular) or incredibly ignorant regarding basic business practices and principles. cheapbasslovin was stating a fact. You are stating an opinion. There is a fundamental difference. I would be THRILLED to hear your rebuttal to his and my post on how a for-profit business, any for-profit business, can succeed if it does not satisfy any of its customers. Please feel free to provide specific examples.

Through your statements and insinuations that you know TCE's people at high levels, you have, to me and perhaps others, assumed TCE's mantle. Now back it up or continue doing the company you endorse a disservice. At this point, your endorsement, comments and lack of any valid argument or facts is more detrimental to my, and again, I'd imagine other's, opinion of TCE.

I don't even care that much about TCE specifically, I just think it's messed up that some shill is in here claiming that a company he actively endorses has somehow achieved the impossible in order to invalidate a customer's complaint.

Well said.
Plus, we wouldn't want to alienate any possible future "material" endorsments now, would we.

 

[PhatBasstard]

i agree that this is something beyond bad CS

When two different international branches of the company can't even confirm the piece exists, yeah, I'd say that is something beyond bad CS.

And then delivering it in such a "so what' manner...well that's just the topper, isn't it.

 

[Iridescentone]

I would be THRILLED to hear your rebuttal to his and my post on how a for-profit business, any for-profit business, can succeed if it does not satisfy any of its customers.

<hyperbole alert>

Surely you're not actually trying to assert that TC does'nt satisfy ANY of its customers?

 

[Marlat]

Did you read about a news story on say, Foxnews and leave with a certain impression of the story an then read the same story on like the BBC and leave with a very different impression of te same story. Sort of like when a kid at school has to tell their parents why they got detention vs theversion of the 'why' that the teacher would tell. I don't know why, but this thread kinda reminded me of those situations.

 

[capnsandwich]

Did you read about a news story on say, Foxnews and leave with a certain impression of the story an then read the same story on like the BBC and leave with a very different impression of te same story. Sort of like when a kid at school has to tell their parents why they got detention vs theversion of the 'why' that the teacher would tell. I don't know why, but this thread kinda reminded me of those situations.

I think 90% of the bad experience threads here on TB are like that. It comes down to which source you believe the most. With Bongomania's knowledge on compressors and his reputation on TB I find myself believing his side first. However, I would like to hear the other side chime in if that's at all possible.

 

[PhatBasstard]

It comes down to which source you believe the most. With Bongomania's knowledge on compressors and his reputation on TB I find myself believing his side first. However, I would like to hear the other side chime in if that's at all possible.

Exactly,
...provided they can figure out if they even make the pedal in the first place.

FWIW (and I probably should have stated this in an earlier post), I absolutely love the pieces of TC gear I've tried. However, the pieces I have owned I bought cheap as "broken" and repaired myself, so the CS part of this was not an issue for me.
I just can't justify $300 for a Chorus/Flange pedal when an EBS is 95% as good, half the price, doesn't need a separate AC plug on my board and takes up a third less real estate.
If this is the kind of CS they offer if I do have questions/issues with a piece of their gear, I don't think it will persuade me to buy new from them at any point (which is where they make their money).

 

[rasthedoctor]

<hyperbole alert>

Surely you're not actually trying to assert that TC does'nt satisfy ANY of its customers?

Jauqo flippantly stated that cheapbasslovin and I are incorrect in asserting that: if enough people have the same experience as Bongo, TCE will be forced to either change or go out of business. Jauqo is fundamentally incorrect in this regard and has failed to introduce an argument to the contrary. Instead, he is saying that TCE is somehow beyond reproach and that if 25, 50, 75 or even 100% of their customers had the same experience as Bongo, TCE would be able to continue to be a viable business. I.e, even if they had a 100% dissatisfaction rate, they wouldn't have to change a thing.

My use of hyperbole is to bolster the obvious point that Jauqo, as someone who allegedly has connections at TCE at the highest level, is wrong and that his responses to potential TCE customers in a public forum is detrimental both to this discussion and TCE's reputation in general. He is doing them (certainly) and us (potentially) a disservice.

 

[warwick.hoy]

I've typed and deleted a number of posts in this thread.

While I acknowledge that bongo is the victim of crappy customer service and I value his opinion,...I am loathe to jump on a public tar and feathering of TCE. Mainly because I'm a little leery of the pack mentality, bandwagon jumping and brown nosing that seems to have occurred in the first few pages of this thread, followed by the ego tripping that has ensued on the back 9 of this thread.

I will say that poor CS aside, my main gripe with TCE is their prices. If I pay $200 for a pedal I expect it to be properly designed (strike one), work as advertised (strike two) and be accompanied with top notch customer service in the event that it fails (strike three).

Maybe TCE gear is worth it but I'd personally never buy a TCE product because I'm blue collar (I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason that bongo got the shart end of the stick). I can't afford their products because they are priced for the elite. That's okay by me; if I'm not their intended audience then I can reciprocate with my wallet and rest assured that the feeling is mutual.

 

[Iridescentone]

I would like to hear the other side chime in if that's at all possible.

Ideally, yeah. I'd be surprised to see it.

TCE is more likely to view all this as a tempest-in-a-teapot, if they bother to view it at all. And even less likely to submit to demands or threats from a miniscule portion of their overall target market.

One can always hope, tho!