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T/S parameters for vintage CTS 8x10 drivers?

#101
I just spent about an hour with the two neo's that finally showed up ( there were supposed to be 4) They sound awsome too! My initial impression is that the neo's have alittle more low end and even brighter and clearer up top than the webers. They both sound equally as good to me at this point but, I like them both for different reasons. They are supposed to weigh the same but, the neo's are noticable lighter. If I would have got the neos first, I would have given them the same review that I gave the webers. They are the same but different, like the difference between two brothers. There will be more comparisons as this develops but, if you are going for the vintage 8x10 sound, either one will be a winner for you. They both sound better than whats in the ampeg cabs, the B810 or all the other drivers I've tried. It's going to be a very tough decision as to which I end up going with.
 
#102
Did you ever have to make up your mind
Pick up on one and leave the other behind
It's not often easy and not often kind
Did you ever have to make up your mind

Did you ever have to finally decide
Say yes to one and let the other one ride
There's so many changes and tears you must hide
Did you ever have to finally decide

John Sebastian was thinking about girls but it seems to apply to speakers as well. Oddly enough, the song was on an album called Do You Believe in Magic, which applies equally well to amps and cabs. :p
 
#103
You know, I know there is no such thing as a single "neo" sound, but this seems to be the way all neos I've heard come across...bigger lows and cleaner. Haven't played any Ampeg Pro Neo cabs, but it seems they all do that. I wonder if it's going to end up like passive vs active pickups, where actives are always cleaner and clearer.
 
#104
I know what you mean jimmy. I don't think thats really the case here. It just actually sounds like the frequency response chart suggests. I put the 6 webers in fullrange mode last night in like the sound alot and actually, the off axis response wasn't too bad. I can't really explain that one. Probably the only good way to choose will be to load the new 8x10 half and half, and just feed power to one half at a time to see which I am going to go with.
 
#105
Loaded a pair of single 1x10 sealed cab with some webers and played my 70's SVT through them. Sounded Awsome! I think that Im going to stick with the webers for my 8x10 since I can get them in different impedances. So, Im thinking about selling the neo's. I have two of them and assume that the other two will arrive today. Pm me if you are interested.

It's still alittle premature since The webers aren't broke in yet but, Im pretty sure the neos will still end up having more low end. And the neo's still extend alittle higher. For anyone considering doing the ampeg 8x10 mod with 2 or 4 jensen mod10's, Id tell them just to get some of the these neo's from fliptops. They sound better, clear, brighter and will handle more power than the ones that actually come in the ampeg cabs. I think a pair of them would make a berg cab sound brighter as well. One thing that I didn't think about when getting these two drivers is power handling. They are both rated the same thermally (150 watts) but, the webers being wired series parallel each pair will still only be 150 watts where the neo's will be 150 watts each. 600 watts versus 1200. I can tell you that most people, me included, will never push a weber loaded 8x10 to failure but, it's something to think about on smaller cabs maybe. I wish someone else would have put time, money and effort into this a long time ago but, Im getting where I want to be and now the information is out there for other guys to read.
 
#106
Are the Webers a little more even and present in the mids? The fliptop neos response seems to have a pronounced dip from 500-800 Hz. Probably not an issue for most but if considering an amp like the Streamliner 900 which works better without that mid scoop it might influence which driver to use. Also, I'm not sure I understand the issue with power handling of the Webers. How a driver is wired can affect the load seen by the amplifier and how much power is delivered to the driver but it should have no affect on how much power the driver can handle.
 
#107
If you have two 150 watt drivers in parallel, they will handle 150 watts each for a total of 300 watts. Two drivers rated at 150 watts wired in series would only be rated for 150 watts because each driver can only (in theory) handle 150 watts. If you put 300 watts across them, most likely one of the drivers would blow because neither one can handle 300. Im not sure how to explain it better.

Either driver would be good with that genz. I don't think either has more mids. The neo has more low end and alittle flatter in the low mids. The weber is tighter in the lows but has a bigger low mid bump. That my actually help the genz I guess. I know that you were looking seriously at the fane drivers. They are really good but, either one of these drivers that I have are just flat out better. They both have a better tone. Currently with my genz sm9.2 my controls are as follows. (with webers)

Bass noon
low mid all the way left gain at -4 clicks
high mid at noon with gain +6 clicks
treble 2:00
global lows noon
global highs noon

With the neo's I have the
bass noon
low mid noon gain noon
high mid noon with gain +6 clicks
treble 1:00
global controls off

This should represent how I have been describing the difference in these two awsome drivers.
 
#108
5StringPocket said:
How a driver is wired can affect the load seen by the amplifier and how much power is delivered to the driver but it should have no affect on how much power the driver can handle.
Click to expand...

+1

It's same same for power drop over multiple drivers (or any resistive element) independent of wriring.

In parallel, they each have the total voltage drop, but the current is divided evenly. In series, they each see the total current, but the voltage drop is divided evenly. And power loss equals voltage x current I.e., 1/n voltage x current = voltage x 1/n current.

Anyway (and more importantly), looking forward to a positive gig report! (You know a composite 8x10 with these could be under 60lbs :p )
 
#109
kringle77 said:
Either driver would be good with that genz. I don't think either has more mids. The neo has more low end and alittle flatter in the low mids. The weber is tighter in the lows but has a bigger low mid bump. That my actually help the genz I guess. I know that you were looking seriously at the fane drivers. They are really good but, either one of these drivers that I have are just flat out better. They both have a better tone. Currently with my genz sm9.2 my controls are as follows. (with webers)

Bass noon
low mid all the way left gain at -4 clicks
high mid at noon with gain +6 clicks
treble 2:00
global lows noon
global highs noon

With the neo's I have the
bass noon
low mid noon gain noon
high mid noon with gain +6 clicks
treble 1:00
global controls off

This should represent how I have been describing the difference in these two awsome drivers.
Click to expand...

Thanks that's good info. For an 810 it might be a tougher call but for a 610 with 3 drivers low passed, 32 ohm drivers are ideal for ease of wiring and would only need a single heavy duty coil & cap for the low pass. Swapping in a single 10FH in the bottom low-pass position for a touch more beef would complete the package for me. Now, if only it could come in around 70 lbs...
 
#110
Well, in that case I would go with the neo. I did more comparisons last night and the neo is definitley lighter weight than the weber. I you read the BGM issue with the neo ampeg cab, the fliptops 32 ohm cts clone looks exactly like whats in that cab. I don't know if they compare soundwise though. Im still not sure if my other pair of neo's will arrive today but, I've decided to stick with webers for my 810 I think. The neo definitely has more lows and top end, Im positive now. Im thinking that the neo is actually more of a cts clone and the weber is a slightly tweeked version of it. When I push on the cone, the neo just feels more like the cts and an the materials used look more like it. The weber is stiffer so, probably less x-max, both have same type of dust cap and accordian surround. Of course, 4 of each would be pretty sweet too! It may make eq'ing alittle weird though.

Before I started this thread there seemed to be so much mystery involving the old ampeg cts cabs and now, because of the folks on TB we have the specs and two viable drivers to use. I love it. :)
 
#116
There did seem to be a few people that were interested in getting that tone without blowing the doors off the bar. Don't know the excursion of the webers, but their thermal rating would indicate handling a bit of breakup. Would be nice if 4 of them started to get a little cone "flavor" around that same level an SVT starts getting it's rock character. At 94-95db per, if you're carrying the room, not in the PA, that "should" translate to a nice rock tone that's still bearable in a typical small/medium bar. Say between 50 and 150 patrons in a room they could fit in and still walk around.
 
#117
Yeah, that sounds about right to me.

Just got off the phone with Don. The new 8x10 is going to be 43.5" tall, 22" wide, 15.75" deep. This should officially be the most compact 8x10 bass cab ever built. I have the four sealed chambers positioned like two vertical stacks in case I ever wanted to use different crossed over drivers in one of the top compartments. This won't be needed with the webers though. There will be a 500hz 2nd order lowpass/ fullrange switch for the left vertical columb of drivers. I already know what it's going to sound like since my nv610 is loaded with them right now and Im very happy about it. I should gain, just alittle more low end, efficiency and the added height will help get sound out into the room very well. I know that the cab will end up being under 100lbs but, Im not sure what. Probably between 85lbs and 100lbs. So it may end up being the smallest, lightest and most vintage of any new 8x10.
 
#118
coreyfyfe said:
Now there's a thought. There was a thread going a while back about trying to get a group buy for eminence B810s at 16 ohms, this could be the solution to that problem.
Click to expand...

I know they've been reviewed as not as SVT-ish (less tight, etc.), but a budget version could be done with the Faital 10FE's in 16 ohm. About half the cost of the neos, IIRC.
 
#120
Compared the webers and neo's again just now, 4 webers and 2 neos loaded into the nv610. The neos do go lower and higher. The webers are darker but when you turn up the highs to compensate they get alittle gritty sounding. They sounded fine mixed but, I still prefer the sound one type of driver at a time. The webers really do remind me of the jensen mod10's with some actual low end. I really do think the webers will develope more low end as they break in but, they are pretty stiff drivers and will take more playing than some other drivers. Unfortunately the band is pretty light on gigs as most people in my area are more broke than usual and aren't going out as much. And the weather is not cooperating so I can't bring the gear outside where I can crank it up a bit.
 

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