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T/S parameters for vintage CTS 8x10 drivers?

#141
I just put the berg drivers back in the nv610 since I should have the new cab for the webers in a week or two. Again, the stock berg has a fatter low end and a more burly midrange. That makes it alittle "ganky" when turing up the treble (which it needs) but, it cuts through and punches like nothing else out there. The weber cab will sound sweeter over all. So, as with everything else, it's a trade off.
 
#142
At one time, Weber used to offer a service where they would break in your speakers. Don't know if they still do this. It sounds like your Weber drivers are taking time to soften. Might be worth asking about if anyone is planning on buying some.
 
#143
My experience and opinion.
If speaker don't sound soft then they won't do it 10 years later.
If all speakers out there would sound different or "softer" after "break in" then it would never be possible to predict the sound of new ones, because you don't know what you you'll get after "break in".

But I'm sure that after some time of use the speaker parameters are changed a bit.
Maybe even the sound is changed a bit but, I point out the difference is hardly audible.

But if the parameters are strongly changed, for example after years of working in a prof PA System, the speaker is gone/exhausted and should be reconed.
 
#144
I do find that bass drivers and pro sound woofers do loosen up a bit with use. The low end widens alittle giving the impression of a smoother sound. Will it sound like a different driver later on, probably not. But, it IS audible.
 
#145
The suspensions certainly do loosen up during initial use. My guess is you are probably about there and not going to get any more lows. I'd wait to see how 8 of them sound in the new cab before trying anything. If that doesn't get you there, swap one side (the one that has the ability to be low passed) for the Fliptops, B810s, or the heavy mag Webers.
 
#146
To me the "break in" myth is hard to understand.

However speaker power ratings are estimated in a similar way.
Every parameter (electrical and/or mechanical) must not be changed to more than 10% difference after end of test.

Try to imagine.
The test procedure duration lasts 2 ours with 300 Watt RMS and 1200 Watt random peaks of strain to the speaker.
Not a single of the speaker parameter changed then more than 10% after this.

Be aware you need a power amp with 1200 Watt for a single speaker to do it the same way.

Try to imagine what 10% difference of fs or vas or qts really means.
Or 10% difference of suspension what is vas.
 
#147
kringle77 said:
I just put the berg drivers back in the nv610 since I should have the new cab for the webers in a week or two. Again, the stock berg has a fatter low end and a more burly midrange. That makes it alittle "ganky" when turing up the treble (which it needs) but, it cuts through and punches like nothing else out there. The weber cab will sound sweeter over all. So, as with everything else, it's a trade off.
Click to expand...

From all the back and forth comparisons it seems like the neo fliptops come closest to combining the whump of the Berg drivers with the sweeter more extended response of the Webers. I'm sure swapping in Weber 10FH for the low-passed drivers would definitely bring on the whump but the added weight is pretty substantial.
 
#149
If all speakers out there would sound different or "softer" after "break in" then it would never be possible to predict the sound of new ones, because you don't know what you you'll get after "break in".
Click to expand...

Many manufacturers seem to use the EIA-RS426A standard which specifies a pink noise test signal applied for a duration of eight hours.

I don't know if they subject the drivers to an initial break in procedure before performing the test to even out the playing field. Maybe the eight hour duration takes break in into account allowing the drivers to reach a steady state condition.
 
#150
beans-on-toast said:
Many manufacturers seem to use the EIA-RS426A standard which specifies a pink noise test signal applied for a duration of eight hours.

I don't know if they subject the drivers to an initial break in procedure before performing the test to even out the playing field. Maybe the eight hour duration takes break in into account allowing the drivers to reach a steady state condition.
Click to expand...

Other manufactures use the AES2-1984 (r2003) recommendation.


Both use pink noise with +6dB random peaks.
300 Watt RMS / 1200 Watt Peak

But both do not intend a break in.
Both recommendations EIA/AES try to estimate power handling for a given type of speaker.
Maximum Power handling translates into a 10% change of a parameter (mechanical/electrical).


So it is the power handling test recommendations ...
 
#151
Did you ever try getting an impedance reading of the cab with the stock drivers? I was checking mine out the other day while trying to tighten up some rattles and such and it would fluctuate somewhere between 4 and 5 ohms, mostly hovering around 5. My B25 cab with 2 8 ohm speakers in parallel read the expected 3.2ish ohms to correlate with a 4 ohm impedance. I checked all the speakers with a battery and they all move properly so I know they're hooked up right.
 
#152
Im thinking I may actually want alittle more bottom end in this 8x10. The only driver that will put out a good low end and work in this size sealed cab is the eminence BP102. It would add a bunch of weight to the cab and the BP102 loaded side of the cab would be about 2.5db (supposedly) less sensitive than the weber side. Hmmm...

I won't actually have the cab for about another week and a half so, it's all speculation at this point.

I could always load in the 6 berg drivers and cross them over to 2 webers. That would probably be the best sounding 8x10 ever but, would defeat the purpose of this project.
 
#153
True. It almost sounds like fitting an NV610 with a switchable low pass for one side and replacing the top full range driver with a Weber wouldn't be a bad option if you just wanted to tweak the original instead of doing a new build.
 
#154
I've pretty much done that already. Because of the impedance values, there isn't a good way to use one weber fullrange. Putting one weber crossed over and in it's own foam hat/chamber works but you actually do hear a difference in the cabs tuning. It sounds lower, which some would like but, not me. I think that if I need more real low end I'll try 4 Bp102's, or the heavy webers. The neo svt have alittle more low end and I'll be trying them as well. Probably not as much as the heavy webers and nowhere near the BP102.
 
#155
Maybe the better option would be to get a pair of the heavier weber 10FH drivers. They are supposed to put out alot of low end and be 97db. A pair low passed could possibley put out enough extra lows and not add too much more weight to the cab. You just never know though, weber has no specs available. I have no regrets with the 10fl's, but it was a crap shoot and they could have sucked. Luckily they didn't.
 
#156
Screw it. I just put in an order for two Weber 10FH heavy drivers. 60 oz. magnets, 98db, 2" voicecoil. I remember liking the sound of the one that I had awhile ago but, I ended up sending it back because I didn't ever get the specs to build a cab around it. I don't remember how much low end it had but, I do remember it had more than the 10FL. I don't think this is too much of a risk. These two at 98db each would keep up with 4 of the 10fl's and may put out just enough extra bottom end that I will only need two of them. And now the wait.

Oh, Don will be shipping the 8x10 out, hopefully early next week. I'll probably be gigging the stock nv610 until I get all the bugs worked out of the new 8x10. I'll post a new thread linked to this one when the cab arrives.
 
#158
What a journey you are on... all for tone...

what did you do with the crossfired 6x10 box?
I've been reaing your threads for what seems like an eternity...

You will find it sometime... I'm confident.


U should enjoy the hunt as much if not more then the meal... or it wasn't worth it.
 
#160
kringle77 said:
Screw it. I just put in an order for two Weber 10FH heavy drivers. 60 oz. magnets, 98db, 2" voicecoil. I remember liking the sound of the one that I had awhile ago but, I ended up sending it back because I didn't ever get the specs to build a cab around it. I don't remember how much low end it had but, I do remember it had more than the 10FL. I don't think this is too much of a risk. These two at 98db each would keep up with 4 of the 10fl's and may put out just enough extra bottom end that I will only need two of them. And now the wait.

Oh, Don will be shipping the 8x10 out, hopefully early next week. I'll probably be gigging the stock nv610 until I get all the bugs worked out of the new 8x10. I'll post a new thread linked to this one when the cab arrives.
Click to expand...

+1... had to be done.
:bassist:
 

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