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Tal Wilkenfeld, who's like her?

#221
wishface said:
With respect, I think you underestimate just what kind of advantage that kind of money confers. 36k (i still find that hard to believe) is a huge sum of money wtihout even factoring in exchange rates. That will pay for a decent instrument, a place to live, recording gear. If you factor in talent and opportunity (such as being in a musical environment like a good music school) then you really do have a solid advantage. That she made that work is to her credit, but you cannot underestimate the factors that worked in her favour to get her to the point where her talent could be spotted and used. And yes, as grossly unfair and probably even sexist as it sounds, that she's a pretty young woman will help. That's the music business for you. Would she be where she is if she was overeight and blessed with bad skin?
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Check out the rates for the school she attended in La, 18000 a year for tuition, not sure if that includes room and board or food.
 
#222
Some of the posts have a subtext of:
"She made it because she had a rich daddy"
"She made it because she's cute"
"If she were a guy and played like that no one would care"
When someone chooses a bassist they are considering the whole package. Cher passed on Stu Hamm for her tour because he wasn't a tall skinny Italian with black hair. I was passed over for a Major Tour at one point because my hair was too short. I have heard of several Nashville Acts either tacitly or actively putting age limits on their touring bands (no Old Guys). This stuff happens.
Access to money or lack of it is a factor but not an excuse. Jaco, Alain Caron, Victor Wooten and many other players are graduates of the University of the Gig whether by choice or lack of funds and they are (or were) were all highly-trained players who mostly taught themselves. Jeff Berlin had a very short time at Berklee but learned how to teach himself and continued on. It can be done.
My folks weren't rich-they helped me out like many parents in the US did. A lot of learning and improving in my Musical Life happened way after Music School. There is so much learning we do on our own-just check out Richard Bona and Linley Marthe's stories.
For every Tal Wilkenfeld there are hundreds of other attendees of MI, Berklee or LAMA who aren't. Some become good solid players with good solid careers. Some are there thinking they can buy their careers and find they can't and they don't want to do the work and pay the price. Some have the right combination of talent, skills, timing, luck, people skills and the elusive "X" factor and are the next generation of Bass Stars.
 
#228
miles'tone said:
I knoww Jimmy's stuff quite well. Is there anyone new on the scene that's like her? Had my finger off the pulse for a while. (Been hoovering up old be-bop for too long!)
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Some nice stuff being played by Damien Erskine, Evan Marien and Felix Pastorius. Check them out, they are great! Also Stephen "Thundercat" Bruner, love his playing!
 
#229
Roy Vogt said:
Some nice stuff being played by Damien Erskine, Evan Marien and Felix Pastorius. Check them out, they are great! Also Stephen "Thundercat" Bruner, love his playing!
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Hey thanks for that, will check them out!

I remember seeing Felix P play (on tv that is) after being introduced by Victor Wooten - not sure what the prog was though. Thought he sounded good then as this was a few years ago. People may think he has big shoes to fill but even back then he seemed like he was only concerned with filling his own.
I look forward to finding out more...

cheers.
 
#230
miles'tone said:
Hey thanks for that, will check them out!

I remember seeing Felix P play (on tv that is) after being introduced by Victor Wooten - not sure what the prog was though. Thought he sounded good then as this was a few years ago. People may think he has big shoes to fill but even back then he seemed like he was only concerned with filling his own.
I look forward to finding out more...

cheers.
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I believe that was one of the Bass Days performances. Not sure what year though. You might be able to search for it on YouTube.
 
#231
Roy Vogt said:
I understand what you're saying here. I have a friend who is a very attractive woman singer-songwriter-multi-instrumentalist. Her Dad left her a sizeable trust fund and inheritance and she and her husband parlayed that into two very successful Music Businesses, she has played on several major tours, etc. Everyone gets dealt a little different hand. I had to pretty much get things for myself, putting myself through Grad School with a Teaching Assistantship and gigs, Undergrad with gigs and Summer jobs, etc. I do take some pride at doing it myself, but again everyone gets a different set of assets and liabilities and what we do with it is Life.
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I wouldn't deny the advantages of any number of "conditions" and it's very admirable that some people work themselves to the bone to achieve their goals. But as Roy points out above, everyone is dealt a different hand in life. I just don't see the point in analyzing all of the factors that lead to the end result when it comes to my deciding whether or not I enjoy a particular musician. To me the "end product" speaks for itself.
 
#232
Because those factors are important. Whether or not that's fair or agreeable. I once looked into going to the Bass INstitute school in London, but the 5k tuition fee alone was way beyond me.

I don't resent someone like Tal because she'd be a fool to refuse help offered by her family. Anyone would, but you can't just dismiss it because she happens to be a good player.
 
#233
As much controversy as this conversation has sparked I'd hate to add fuel to the fire. But you're forgetting about all the people that paid that same money, took tons of classes, and didn't make it. Not because of their level of attraction, but because of the level of raw/natural talent they had wasn't there. Or perhaps their passion to be successful.

I went to school for musical theatre. There were the people that took every class, studied every exercise, pounded their homework, had more drive than anyone in the class, etc. But they still never made it as far because they didn't have the talent. They could do everything technically, but it just wasn't the same. There were the people who had the talent and potential that just needed to be brought out and polished, they did well. Some are performing in New York, some went other routes. At that point their drive for success dictated where they went. Then there were the people who had no clue(me) while all these students spent their whole life dreaming of being onstage, I joined a theatre class because I like to do stupid voices...and for girls. 4 years later at our showcase I was offered a contract in NY. Should I have been resented by the people that did shows since they were 5? Or that I chose to take out loans to go to school to learn more about it? It really all comes down to the end result. A manager saw something in me and took a chance on it. The worst part is that I didn't have the raw desire or passion to continue. And also was raised in a small town and NY was way too much for me haha. But now I DO have the desire for something, and I AM putting forth a ton of effort and am just stuck in a rut. I can't move forward, I'm trying to learn as much as I can, and am searching for help. So just like it's been said, that's just the hand we're dealt. To me success is individual. I've never wanted to be famous, I just want to make a living doing what I love. That's my success.

I guess my point in that story is even if they have the talent and education, the drive has to be there for success. So it's not like Tal was just handed a gig and she thought "ugh, ok I suppose" She still worked hard.
 
#236
wishface said:
Because those factors are important. Whether or not that's fair or agreeable. I once looked into going to the Bass INstitute school in London, but the 5k tuition fee alone was way beyond me.

I don't resent someone like Tal because she'd be a fool to refuse help offered by her family. Anyone would, but you can't just dismiss it because she happens to be a good player.
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Again, the actual effect of the factors you mention on Tal's playing are, to some degree at least, speculative. Perhaps Tal's dad used to bring her donuts every Saturday morning and this gesture had a profound effect on her drive and determination. Or perhaps she used to get teased mercilessly at school and that is what shaped her drive. Any one person has thousands of potential factors that lead them to become what they are. And I've seen enough graduates of university music programs who, while well-trained, were not musical players. So for me, again, the "opportunity" thing just isn't an issue. I mean, really, you could start speculating about why she might be a pleasant person to hang out with. I'm sure under different circumstances she could have grown up to be a complete jerk that no musician would want to be around. This is a factor that is just as relevant to her gigging situation as her playing talent, so why not look at that as well?
 
#237
My first introduction to Tal was Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scott's" DVD.

Yes she's adorable, but shes also a friggin' amazing bass player! People like Jeff Beck or any of the other "names" she has played with could pick just about anyone to play on their albums or go on tour with them, and they chose HER. Just sayin'
 

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