Tal Wilkenfeld, who's like her?

[bass12]

Having access to capital enables you to do a lot of things that you can't do if you don't have access to it.

With access to capital a person doesn't have to worry about spending time working to pay for things like rent, food, equipment, lessons, studio time, studio musicians, sidemen, arrangers, etc. When you can spend more time on music and you spend that time on music you get better. With access to capital you can study with all types of people that you couldn't if you didn't and that's going to make you better. With access to capital you can hire web developers, PR people, photographers, etc.

This is how money has power and how it has the ability to grease the wheels.

Yes, and what does that have to do with the issue at hand?

 

[Kwesi]

Having access to capital enables you to do a lot of things that you can't do if you don't have access to it.

With access to capital a person doesn't have to worry about spending time working to pay for things like rent, food, equipment, lessons, studio time, studio musicians, sidemen, arrangers, etc. When you can spend more time on music and you spend that time on music you get better. With access to capital you can study with all types of people that you couldn't if you didn't and that's going to make you better. With access to capital you can hire web developers, PR people, photographers, etc.

This is how money has power and how it has the ability to grease the wheels.

I don't doubt it but I don't think this takes away from her abilities or what she's accomplished.

 

[Jared Lash]

Some people get breaks. As mentioned, Miles Davis came from an affluent family and his father the dentist paid for him to attend Juliard.

Ray Lamontagne had an abusive father who abandoned him and was working in a shoe factory when he decided he wanted to be a musician.

Everyone's life experience influences their music to an unknowable degree, but all that matters to me is whether their art moves me. In the case of both guys I just mentioned it absolutely does.

Victor Wooten's brother Reggie was teaching him to play bass before he could even really hold the thing and was playing on stage with the family band when he was six. How many of us got that sort of advantage in our musical studies? Better yet, how many of us resent Victor Wooten for it?

And as long as Janek got mentioned, he's another guy that flew to the U.S. to study at a prestigious music school (Berklee) before dropping out and using his connections to get gigs in NYC.

But getting a leg up still doesn't change the fact that playing like this:

comes from hard work and passion.

Life isn't fair. Some people get advantages that others never have. All that really matters is whether you make the most of the advantages you do have.

 

[Phil Smith]

I don't doubt it but I don't think this takes away from her abilities or what she's accomplished.

Where do you think your own playing would be if you had access to capital and with that access to the best teachers and you could hire the best musicians to work with you even if it's just in the studio. Do you think you'd still be playing the way you currently do? Of course you have to be willing to do the work.

 

[bass12]

Some people get breaks. As mentioned, Miles Davis came from an affluent family and his father the dentist paid for him to attend Juliard.

Ray Lamontagne had an abusive father who abandoned him and was working in a shoe factory when he decided he wanted to be a musician.

Everyone's life experience influences their music to an unknowable degree, but all that matters to me is whether their art moves me. In the case of both guys I just mentioned it absolutely does.

Victor Wooten's brother Reggie was teaching him to play bass before he could even really hold the thing and was playing on stage with the family band when he was six. How many of us got that sort of advantage in our musical studies? Better yet, how many of us resent Victor Wooten for it?

And as long as Janek got mentioned, he's another guy that flew to the U.S. to study at a prestigious music school (Berklee) before dropping out and using his connections to get gigs in NYC.

But getting a leg up still doesn't change the fact that playing like this:

comes from hard work and passion.

Life isn't fair. Some people get advantages that others never have. All that really matters is whether you make the most of the advantages you do have.

Nice post.

 

[Kwesi]

Where do you think your own playing would be if you had access to capital and with that access to the best teachers and you could hire the best musicians to work with you even if it's just in the studio. Do you think you'd still be playing the way you currently do? Of course you have to be willing to do the work.

To be completely honest... unless I used that money to pay an army of people to make sure that I practice, yeah, I'd probably be just as good as I am now, lol. It's sad but I'm a terribly lazy musician.

In Tal's case, I think she had the musical drive already, money just smoothed the road.

 

[wishface]

I've been playing for twenty odd years. Obviously no one genuinely interested in bass is going to just give up because they don't have 36k handed to them. But they are more likely to have to give up if they financially struggle. There's a world of difference between the potential available to someone with and without that kind of money. It's far too easy to say 'anyone with drive would succeed anyway' because they don't. I certainly wouldn't turn that kind of money down because it would allow me to broaden my horizons and to acquire the equipment i need to actually put music together. That's the difference between people that have these kinds of advantages and people that don't.

 

[bass12]

To be completely honest... unless I used that money to pay an army of people to make sure that I practice, yeah, I'd probably be just as good as I am now, lol. It's sad but I'm a terribly lazy musician.

In Tal's case, I think she had the musical drive already, money just smoothed the road.

You know, there are some albums I just won't buy because I know the artist received a $100,000 advance.

 

[Kwesi]

I've been playing for twenty odd years. Obviously no one genuinely interested in bass is going to just give up because they don't have 36k handed to them. But they are more likely to have to give up if they financially struggle. There's a world of difference between the potential available to someone with and without that kind of money. It's far too easy to say 'anyone with drive would succeed anyway' because they don't. I certainly wouldn't turn that kind of money down because it would allow me to broaden my horizons and to acquire the equipment i need to actually put music together. That's the difference between people that have these kinds of advantages and people that don't.

No one is saying that money doesn't make a difference but I fail how that changes the fact that she's a good musician. There are any number of struggles and advantages that you could lay on all kinds of musicians. It's important to recognize those differences but at the same time speculating what should would have been like without the benefit of money or exactly how much it's done for her doesn't change anything.

 

[JimK]

As mentioned, Miles Davis came from an affluent family and his father the dentist paid for him to attend Juliard.

Funny...'cause I have a copy of Collateral sitting here (Why? I don't know).
So...was it Julliard or 52nd Street?

 

[funkytown]

Having access to capital enables you to do a lot of things that you can't do if you don't have access to it.

With access to capital a person doesn't have to worry about spending time working to pay for things like rent, food, equipment, lessons, studio time, studio musicians, sidemen, arrangers, etc. When you can spend more time on music and you spend that time on music you get better. With access to capital you can study with all types of people that you couldn't if you didn't and that's going to make you better. With access to capital you can hire web developers, PR people, photographers, etc.

This is how money has power and how it has the ability to grease the wheels.

And you have proof that Tal did this right? With all that access to capital you would think she would have more then a 1 page website that's rarely been updated in the last 2 or 3 years. PR people? lol . With all that capital you would think she could hire (a manager)!

 

[wishface]

No one is saying that money doesn't make a difference but I fail how that changes the fact that she's a good musician. There are any number of struggles and advantages that you could lay on all kinds of musicians. It's important to recognize those differences but at the same time speculating what should would have been like without the benefit of money or exactly how much it's done for her doesn't change anything.

It doesn't change that fact. But it's certainly a lot easier to be a good musician, or to at least realise that potential, when you got that kind of money (if true) in your back pocket. That's not a criticism of her, she'd be a fool to turn that down. Obviously she can play.

 

[bass12]

It doesn't change that fact. But it's certainly a lot easier to be a good musician, or to at least realise that potential, when you got that kind of money (if true) in your back pocket. That's not a criticism of her, she'd be a fool to turn that down. Obviously she can play.

There are all kinds of advantages a player might have - the most common of which is probably "natural" talent. Some folks have to work significantly less than others to develop certain aspects of their playing because they are "naturally gifted". But how often do you see musicians berate other musicians because, "well, he's got natural talent - of course he's good!". And how often do people criticize the work of Mozart (or any number of other universally celebrated "classical" composers) because he had his work funded by an outside party?

But I still can't get over how many people seem to equate a musician's value with chops. There are more formally educated bassists out there than ever before, but that doesn't mean there's been an increase in the number of bassists I want to listen to. Quite the contrary. I hear countless bassists who sound like they were more influenced by Charlie Parker than by Jamerson, and that's not what I personally look for in a bassist.

 

[bassguitarthund]

Tal is a bass player that plays bass in a very musical fashion and she has real song sensibility, if you guys even know what that is because you speak as if you do not.
But 1) musicality 2) song sensibility
There! That's it! Easy! That's why she gets the gigs and why musicians love her playing. Maybe it's because I play other instruments that this seems so obvious to me. I'm not in a "bass prison".
On top of that she has good tone and she can write. (Actual good music that you "don't need to be a bass player to" enjoy).

What is there not to like?

When Jeff Beck talked about his first meeting with Tal when she and Vinnie Colaiuta showed up at his doorstep, and they played, and he used the words "And out it came...you know; like Jaco."
He said it, and here some people react to it as if it were the most idiotic thing a person could say. Yeah, Jeff Beck doesn't know what he's talking about
I'm guessing he's talking about musicality and it makes perfect sense. And the responses where people are putting up links that are supposed to show equal/greater musical content: Not even close.

Influences: Tal has said that Jaco and Anthony Jackson are her mentors.

There's been some discussion on Tal being a TB member or not, and that's why people should be more respectful.
Why the hell would Tal want to be a contributor to this site in any way shape or form?
To read about how she's nothing, or would never be where she's now, without her looks?
To read about the "boob scoop" on her Sadowsky?
I think it's really low and pathetic to write such things about anyone, and to do it about someone that actually has talent...well, it goes without saying. It's almost equals youtube comments in stupidity....just my opinion

I agree and feel the same way about the response on this thread. However there are a lot of good people on this forum and I think the majority of TB members appreciate her and her talent. Most of the negative comments on this thread are coming from the same few people. I am a bog fan of Tal's playing. O have much respect for her!!! So please don't let this thread give you the wrong opinion of TB members. There are a lot of good ones on here. This being the largest bass players forum on the net you are going to get a wide variety of people on here.

 

[bassguitarthund]

Some of the comments on this thread are CRAZY pathetic, IMHO!!!

She's a GREAT player and deserves all the recognition she has EARNED...

Truth!!

 

[Phil Smith]

And you have proof that Tal did this right? With all that access to capital you would think she would have more then a 1 page website that's rarely been updated in the last 2 or 3 years. PR people? lol . With all that capital you would think she could hire (a manager)!

I'm making a general comment on what having access to capital allows you to do.

 

[Kwesi]

I'm making a general comment on what having access to capital allows you to do.

I thought as much but I couldn't help but feel like it was a bit of a dig even if that wasn't the intention.

 

[Phil Smith]

There are all kinds of advantages a player might have - the most common of which is probably "natural" talent. Some folks have to work significantly less than others to develop certain aspects of their playing because they are "naturally gifted". But how often do you see musicians berate other musicians because, "well, he's got natural talent - of course he's good!". And how often do people criticize the work of Mozart (or any number of other universally celebrated "classical" composers) because he had his work funded by an outside party?

This is a mind trick people use to explain why they haven't realized their own potential. Hard work pays off and the result makes you look like you have a natural talent. Look into the past of any great musician and you'll see lots of hard work to make stuff look easy or natural.

But I still can't get over how many people seem to equate a musician's value with chops. There are more formally educated bassists out there than ever before, but that doesn't mean there's been an increase in the number of bassists I want to listen to. Quite the contrary. I hear countless bassists who sound like they were more influenced by Charlie Parker than by Jamerson, and that's not what I personally look for in a bassist.

You need chops to sound good and chops aren't all about playing fast or soloing.

 

[Phil Smith]

I thought as much but I couldn't help but feel like it was a bit of a dig even if that wasn't the intention.

I try to say exactly what I mean, but that doesn't keep people from filling in the blanks from their own psyche.

 

[funkytown]

I'm making a general comment on what having access to capital allows you to do.

Ok.My mistake
This thread is confusing

When she played at crossroads she had only been playing bass for around 4 years and she stole the show on a day that included some pretty heavy hitters in the lineup. Most of 40,000 people who were there didn't even know her name. The girl is a gifted musician and you can't buy that your born with it.