"Talent" and "being born with it"

[beatmachine pro]

a bit of a monkey wrench

i dont know how talented i am, i have some aptitude with the bass
and certainly improve over time

but theres this,...
I can only play my own basslines,
probably not many people can play my basslines better than me.
I cant play anything else
RHCP,Metalica,even pretty easy stuff,i just cant do it

 

[WillyW]

I have to work really at at musicianship.

I have a metric buttload of charisma, but I’d trade some, but not all of it for talent.

 

[spade2you]

+1. If I practiced 8 hours a day I’d be a better player than I currently am but still wouldn’t be as good as Jaco.

8 hours a day, good structure, and maybe a year or two and you might be surprised. I think you underestimate yourself.

 

[Bass Viking]

8 hours a day, good structure, and maybe a year or two and you might be surprised. I think you underestimate yourself.

Thanks but I think Jaco had a head start with his natural talent. He was not only a bass virtuoso but played drums, piano, and composed music.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thanks but I think Jaco had a head start with his natural talent. He was not only a bass virtuoso but played drums, piano, and composed music.

His dad was also a touring musician. Not saying there's a genetic thing but the possibility is there, along with the possibility that hearing a lot of music from a very young age might have made a difference. What I've read about Jaco seems to indicate that he was lightning quick to pick things up by ear. I play with people who have that ability and in my experience you don't run across it at that sort of level very often.

 

[zontar]

I would agree with those that have said both exist, but those who work at it can develop talent, and those born with it still need to work at it in some way.

I used to teach, and I had students that seemed hopeless when they started, but they develop talent & some got quite good.
I did have students that were born with it as well.
Most things came easily.
But they tended to get more frustrated by things that they did have trouble with (Yes that happens)
And some of them got sloppy.
But some kept at it and turned out very, very good.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I know from experience that having a lot of talent can be the basis of bad habits. I am academically gifted, especially in reading comprehension, retention of facts, analysis, etc. Being gifted and being able to get some things quickly resulted in me not having patience for things that did not come quickly. That hurt me when it come to subjects like math and chemistry. It also hurt me in music because fretboard memorization, learning sharps and flats of keys, notes of chords, etc. is time consuming. It was was easier to buy another bass.

Earning an MA and Ph.D. plus seriously studying languages made me more disciplined because being smart alone will not retain vocabulary, and no one can write a thesis or a dissertation the night before a defense.

Bass and baseball showed me the hard way that talent is real. I loved baseball with a passion, but the reality was that I had slow hand speed, and there was no overcoming that. The ironic thing is that I did have athletic talent, but I would have been better at football or shot put. Similarly, I have gotten better on bass, but it is clear that I do not have a ton of innate musical talent. I have talent, but not at the level I wish I had.

 

[P. Aaron]

So here is something I have been thinking about.

I got talking to one guy some weeks ago about instruments and I have mentioned that I play the bass.

His response was something akin to 'i wish I was that talented'.

Being talented...

I don't think having talent is a thing. I think with practice, repetition, studying and playing you can be as skilled at music and playing and instrument as anyone else.

I was watching an interview with Jaco Pastorius and he said that he was born with "it", and you know, maybe he was... But then he said he spent hours upon hours just practicing and playing and studying.

I personally do not believe in talent, it's just work. I would say that I do not have any ability that I have had when I was born, instead I practice and put the hours in and eventually i get better.

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?

Thanks!

Long ago, in a galaxy far away, I used to play drums and I practiced them A LOT. Rudiments, timing, fills, learning tricky rhythms, etc. One time, a non-musician sat at my drums and banged out a sequence of notes that was really cool. Something I realized as I was hearing it that my well trained mind would never produce precisely because I practiced conventional stuff.

My daughter pre-school used to do fantastic art work. Then she went to school and learned art.

 

[P. Aaron]

I know from experience that having a lot of talent can be the basis of bad habits. I am academically gifted, especially in reading comprehension, retention of facts, analysis, etc. Being gifted and being able to get some things quickly resulted in me not having patience for things that did not come quickly. That hurt me when it come to subjects like math and chemistry. It also hurt me in music because fretboard memorization, learning sharps and flats of keys, notes of chords, etc. is time consuming. It was was easier to buy another bass.

Earning an MA and Ph.D. plus seriously studying languages made me more disciplined because being smart alone will not retain vocabulary, and no one can write a thesis or a dissertation the night before a defense.

Bass and baseball showed me the hard way that talent is real. I loved baseball with a passion, but the reality was that I had slow hand speed, and there was no overcoming that. The ironic thing is that I did have athletic talent, but I would have been better at football or shot put. Similarly, I have gotten better on bass, but it is clear that I do not have a ton of innate musical talent. I have talent, but not at the level I wish I had.

Drive, and a passion to constantly go at it matter too. It all depends upon how we prioritize our minutes.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Drive, and a passion to constantly go at it matter too. It all depends upon how we prioritize our minutes.

True. I am taking a break on Bach as I saw your response.

 

[P. Aaron]

My brother is a self-taught drummer and we all know what dexterity that entails to play Rush level drum parts. Now he's retired and he's teaching himself keyboards and he's killing it. I tried to play drums I've tried to play keyboards I don't have the Natural Born gift to separate my brain to do that like he can.

There seems to be some extraordinary level of concentration, a zone divorced from the world around oneself where some ‘just feel it” and can follow-through, and close it like a pro.

I’ve been to that zone many times but, keeping my head there is the hard part. The rest of the band staying there (if they’re even aware of it) too? Difficulty multiplied.

 

[Bass Viking]

I learned early on I had no inclination toward sports, no matter how I tried to practice or participate with others. I'm slow and uncoordinated, just how it is. And unfortunately our kids are the same.

Sorry to hear that. It makes for a crummy experience when you’re young. There’s nothing like being picked last in gym class!

 

[Cecilia]

So here is something I have been thinking about.

I got talking to one guy some weeks ago about instruments and I have mentioned that I play the bass.

His response was something akin to 'i wish I was that talented'.

Being talented...

I don't think having talent is a thing. I think with practice, repetition, studying and playing you can be as skilled at music and playing and instrument as anyone else.

I was watching an interview with Jaco Pastorius and he said that he was born with "it", and you know, maybe he was... But then he said he spent hours upon hours just practicing and playing and studying.

I personally do not believe in talent, it's just work. I would say that I do not have any ability that I have had when I was born, instead I practice and put the hours in and eventually i get better.

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?

Thanks!

I understand the insulting nature of the 'talent' comment. Even though it's meant as a compliment, it does minimize the hard work behind your performance. I read this book "Talent is Overrated" by Geoffrey Colvin which explains what we know already - that dedication, hours of practice as well as cultural circumstances (who surrounds you, mentors, opportunities etc.) play a big part in a person's development and success.

I am involved with horseback riding and motorcycling, both if which take hours of practice and dedication to become proficient with such skills. It's clear that some people are more natural or smarter who learn very quickly. However I contend that practice is key to success i.e. 99% perspiration 1% inspiration!

 

[JimK]

hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard...

...sorry. Couldn't resist.