In light of Jeff's blog, I wish I knew how to practice. Seriously, I seem to toil away, and take little from it. I've even had teachers in the past, but still feel like I'm not getting very far.
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Talent vs Hard Work
- Thread starter ::::BASSIST::::
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In addition to working hard, I think you gotta work smart. and maybe some people are smarter than others? 
Things like, if you know that you have issues crossing strings and what not, then do the exercises that minimizes the issue that you are facing, and then do it to a point where you can incorporate it with you playing, starting slow and working up in a controlled manner, blah blah blah...
Slight rhetoric but you'd be amazed at the amount of people that sidestep the real hard things that they think they might need to work on, and then wonder why they aren't progressing.
Practicing what you don't know is one thing, knowing what you don't know is another.
Things like, if you know that you have issues crossing strings and what not, then do the exercises that minimizes the issue that you are facing, and then do it to a point where you can incorporate it with you playing, starting slow and working up in a controlled manner, blah blah blah...
Slight rhetoric but you'd be amazed at the amount of people that sidestep the real hard things that they think they might need to work on, and then wonder why they aren't progressing.
Practicing what you don't know is one thing, knowing what you don't know is another.
I feel the same as you, but sometimes we/I face the fact that some people do and have the means to put much more time into this that I can, and possibly if they are reaping the rewards of it, they deserve it. But all this after hanging out on the Janek Gwizdala forum a bit!
Personally, I think there's more to consider than just talent and work. If I practice speed drills for four hours a day, and nothing else, I'm gonna be fast, but ask me to right a groove and I'll blaze my way across the fretboard and out of whatever band I just joined. Maybe it's playing smart, practicing smart, maybe there's even more to it. I have a friend in my concert orchestra (for high school) that's been playing for about eight years. He's "done his time", practiced and done everything the teachers told him too, but he doesn't take the instrument seriously. The other bassist(I've been playing standup for two months, so it's not me =)) gets great sound, but has only been playing for two years. He takes the instrument more seriously, and actually wants to play it, but has less experience and doesn't practice as much.
I totally hear you. Have you ever visited Gary Willis' site? He has some helpful information but one thing that always struck me about him was his ability to identify and solve problems. I think of somebody like Gary Willis and I believe he would be successful at whatever path he chose to take in life. He talks about how he came up with certain ideas and even things like developing the Ramp and his fingerboard harmony, he identified his weaknesses as a player and tackled them head on. I'm willing to bet it's the same with most top musicians and professionals in all other aspects of life as well. You look at professional athletes, businessmen, astronauts, professors, architects etc. if you enjoy what you're doing and are committed to it, the world will make room for you.
That's the deep part. Here's the practical and pragmatic part. If you don't have a good teacher, find one. I have studied with some of the best but right now I'm in an area where nobody was really able to offer me much in terms of instruction that would help me. I began studying online with Cliff Engel and I cannot say enough good things about it. He will talk to you about the importance of organizing and maintaining your practice sessions and it is a very comprehensive program. He's cheap too, way less that i ever paid for lessons.
For what it's worth, hope that helps.
There's 10 hours noodling around your house, and there's 10 hours playing with other musicians. IME, time spent playing with others accelerates your improvement. Not sure if there's some exact formula for it (so of the TB'r out there have probably figured one) but 10 hours playing with other musicians has got to be worth close to 20 hours of noodling around the house.
I vote for better equipment.
Whatever it is you are not good at can be compensated for by browsing the classifieds section here, eBay, and craigslist for hours on end. As soon as I buy a Fodera, I will be able to play like Victor.
And really expensive cables. You need those.
Whatever it is you are not good at can be compensated for by browsing the classifieds section here, eBay, and craigslist for hours on end. As soon as I buy a Fodera, I will be able to play like Victor.
And really expensive cables. You need those.
I agree with the some are smarter than others line of thinking, but that can also be overcome. Pride was my issue for many years. Back when I got over myself I started learning what I didn't know about playing bass: I made some good friends, and played with people that were much better than I was. That's when I started learning. It's also when an hours work = something of a forward motion.
There is a talent metric in music, but that's true in life in general.
When I learned to say: Man that's great, you are the man, show me how you did that. I started learning to play.
The other side of me, the old one would have said: You think that's something, watch this.
There is a talent metric in music, but that's true in life in general.
When I learned to say: Man that's great, you are the man, show me how you did that. I started learning to play.
The other side of me, the old one would have said: You think that's something, watch this.
I'm going to go ahead and totally disagree with you, then realize you're probabley joking.
I gotta say talent is something that kind of ticks me off. I always hear the other bassists say how good they are and then i look at what i've accomplished and it's nothing compared to them. One guy who's in about 3-4 bands just practices with his band and only picks up the bass for band time. The thing about how nobody's competing on skill isn't true in some situations. Bands in my high school look for so much skill and always go up to these two really talented guys so they get into more bands. There is such a limited amount of bands starting up it's kind of a hassle to get in one. So these guys are left with so many bands and i'm left with nothing.At least i have a less crowded schedule so i can concentrate on a band more than having to deal with a number of them. That's the reason why i'm getting lessons so i can improve my technique. I find if i work my ass off and get into the right direction i can stand a chance into getting into a band. Freakin high school.
for bass
60% talent 40% work
OT but funny
[the reason I hardly got good grades in school]
80% talent 0% work
60% talent 40% work
OT but funny
[the reason I hardly got good grades in school]
80% talent 0% work
I practice and play every day, even if its only for five or ten minutes and I gain more confidence and insight into where I am weak, and go on from there
I believe it's more about hard work , I practice for hours every day and I still am way behind some bass players in my town .
However I believe succes as a bass player comes from knowing the rigth people ,here where I live I see mediocre players with crappy gear and no dedication to their instrument ( some guys don't even have a bass they are always borrowing one) and they get gigs all the time .
However I believe succes as a bass player comes from knowing the rigth people ,here where I live I see mediocre players with crappy gear and no dedication to their instrument ( some guys don't even have a bass they are always borrowing one) and they get gigs all the time .
I think that there is natural talent, but all that it does is get you more returns for hard work. I've been told that I have a gift for languages, for example, but all that that means that if I spend a bit of time learning a grammatical rule, I learn it more confidently and faster. I still have to work. besides, it's about 90% motivation. I like learning languages, grammatical structures, conjugations, etc, so I ask questions when I want to know something. then, I learn it even better that if I had simply been told it.
very similar with music. some people can learn something in less time than others. within my band, I'm the newest player by at least a factor of 2-3, and I'm rapidly catching up to the others. I have some talent for music, but I'm also playing catch-up, which is easier to find motivation. I practice when I want to, which is often, and for decent lengths of time. I LOVE finding that I'm noticably faster or more dextrous than last time I played.
in short... talent exists, but it only makes hard work worth more. motivation is what makes hard work happen in the first place. motivation is everything.
very similar with music. some people can learn something in less time than others. within my band, I'm the newest player by at least a factor of 2-3, and I'm rapidly catching up to the others. I have some talent for music, but I'm also playing catch-up, which is easier to find motivation. I practice when I want to, which is often, and for decent lengths of time. I LOVE finding that I'm noticably faster or more dextrous than last time I played.
in short... talent exists, but it only makes hard work worth more. motivation is what makes hard work happen in the first place. motivation is everything.
If you guys think you're not getting very far, there's no hope for me.
I noticed in Jeff's blog he mentioned that he picked up the instrument only 4 or 5 years ago (after taking an extended break).
Jeff, if you're reading this, how well could you play before, and how much were you able to improve since picking it up again? If you don't mind me asking, looking back, what were some of your most useful practicing habits?
you can't really have skill w/ out talent. Skill is talent that has been refined. Any good critic knows how to draw the distinction between the two. That's something that might help the judges on American Idol stop making asses out of themselves.
I disagree, but it might be semantics. I know a few musicians I would consider very skilled but not talented. An example is a friend that plays piano. He can play almost anything you put in front of him precisely as written but he can't jam, never improvises or tries to write anything. Can't (won't?) play by ear. I don't think he has ever played anything other than what was placed in front of him. He has great dexterity and is skilled at playing piano keys, but seems to be lacking in musical talent.
here's an interview that might answer your questions about Jeff's playing and about the break he took from music.
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Being the math geek that I am, I also think very 'unintelligent' people can actually work their way up to dealing with Calculus given the patience and dedication, but the truth is that a lot of people can't being themselves to deal with the real pains and trials that dealing with this type of material brings. Completely they believe they could do it if they laid out a game plan and did everything they could to accomplish it, but let's face it, only so many people go through that tough of a process to get their reward. Fact is, it ain't easy, and no one comes out of the womb knowing how to do it all. Well, except Lenny Ng.
Exactly how playing music is sometimes.
jeff schmidt
no longer red carded, but my butt is still sore.
As a teen I was told I was "better" than the other bass players around my little town - but truth be told - I just sucked less than them.
I could play faster than most of them almost immediately - so I do think at a base level - there was something there that some other players didn't seem to have at the early stages.
But - I really think if those kids focused on it - they could probably play faster than me.
I really do think time, effort and focus is the great equalizer and can make up for almost every deficit of "natural" or "inate" abilities.
When I returned to playing "seriously" I went back ALL the way to the beginning. Right to the basics - finger plucking, alternating, string crossing, 1 finger per fret stuff. It's quite humbling being a guy that thought I could "play" realizing I couldn't pull off even basic string crossing drills.
I put forth the effort - I didn't master it - not by a long shot but I worked thru it. I have since forgotten most of those excerises and drills. BTW - Todd Johnson's technique builders DVD is excellent in this area - I should actually run thru that again for a few weeks.
But recently - the past 12 months - I've experienced the most dramatic levels of growth in my playing ever.
It came from 2 things. Playing more than ever - and knowing when NOT to play.
What I've focused on is writing and playing my own solo music.
Learning to play my own solo tunes keeps me in the shed - it motivates me. Also - it helps me get out of practicing "techniques" abstracted from music. So my focus is all about writing & practicing my songs.
And knowing when NOT to play. Knowing when to let there be space and not play. I'm actually in that phase right now. Normally I'd be playing all night - but recently I've felt the need to take a rest. I play a little each day - and a few days not at all - but not the hours on end I had been doing just a few weeks ago. Soon though - I'll be back in the shed again. It's cyclical and you have to respect that.
