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Talent vs Hard Work

#61
I don't understand why a lot of the people on here are so hard on themselves. I'm sure it's not all 95% hard work for example.

Also, I believe that you can't judge using a percentage.
I got accepted to the most applied arts school in Canada, and a few other TBers have gone here.
Clearly, I have a talent in one way or another for the instrument. Yea, I worked hard. Not as hard as I should have, but I worked fairly hard.

Now I'm here, I hardly study for class, but I manage to pull off High 80s, and low 90s. How? I have NO idea. But, I think it slightly pushes into 'talent'

I don't mean to come off as cocky. I'm merely confidant in my playing. But, by all means I have quite a ways to go. I still lack experience, and chops that can only be acquired through years of playing.
 
#62
coltrane was a "master practicer" (jimmy heath quote) i know he practiced hours and hours every day over many years. during the later years, after his solos, during the piano solo or bass or drums, he would go backstage and continue to practice and come out again when it was time. a friend of mine tells a story about how he ran into naima in the subway. she was all flustered and had to get out of the house because coltrane had been playing the same 2 notes for over 3 hours trying to get them perfect. one of history's most "talented" musicians worked his ass off practicing.
 
#63
VEGANBASS said:
Its my suspicion that good or really good bassists just have more in-born natural talent than the rest of us.

I play quite a bit (about 10hrs a week) yet I'm still a hack. I have a family so I cant invest more time than that.

I know over 100 songs, but I get the feeling that most bassist here on TB are much better than me.

How many hrs a week do you have to play to get "good"?

Whats the talent to hard work ratio? (ie for me its about 90% hardwork and 10% talent).
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For me, the whole thing is about transferring what is in your head, through your body/fingers, to the instrument. That's not easy but it makes "practicing" not really practicing, to me. If you can't hear it in your mind's ear, I think all the practice in the world isn't going to help that much.
 
#64
I honestly think that, generally, people who say "I'm talented" should really say "I'm lazy", because it's their way of justifying their lack of practice time.

It's usually really, really obvious.

Practice- dedicated, focused, serious, hard work- is everything. Sloppy and meaningless practice will get you nowhere.
 
#66
shwashwa said:
coltrane was a "master practicer" (jimmy heath quote) i know he practiced hours and hours every day over many years. during the later years, after his solos, during the piano solo or bass or drums, he would go backstage and continue to practice and come out again when it was time. a friend of mine tells a story about how he ran into naima in the subway. she was all flustered and had to get out of the house because coltrane had been playing the same 2 notes for over 3 hours trying to get them perfect. one of history's most "talented" musicians worked his ass off practicing.
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I wonder how many untalented but hard-working players could hear the differences well enough to need or want to do what Coltrane did.
 
#68
Angus said:
I honestly think that, generally, people who say "I'm talented" should really say "I'm lazy", because it's their way of justifying their lack of practice time.

It's usually really, really obvious.

Practice- dedicated, focused, serious, hard work- is everything. Sloppy and meaningless practice will get you nowhere.
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:rolleyes: Thats a VERY BIG generalization. a nice "SOME" placed in your statement would be appreciated. Im not catching feelings, but Im actually one of those "talented" ppl. How do you know how well talented ppl practice?? There are SOME on here that have admitted it, but it aint everyone. I have quite a musical talent and Im proud to know it, but I do recognize that ability starts the race, but its discipline that finishes. I put more that 2 hrs a day on sometimes 3 different instruments (yes quality time). So I dont know who you hang around, but dont pass that off on the rest. :cool:
 
#69
shwashwa said:
i guess only enough to make him one of the most revered musicians in history.
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not dissing Coltrane, I love Coltrane, and I think he was extremely talented and hard-working. I was saying that it was his talent that made him able to hear the smallest differences and nuances. And in saying that I was implying that people who are only hard-working and without talent might not be able to hear sound to the same degree as someone with talent. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
 
#71
Not to brag, I uck horrible ateverything I still get tons of fret buzz, but I seem to have a nack with rhythm and groove. Its like I feel were the song is headed and can lock into a song after hearing it once. Songs I have never hear before I can sometimes tell my friends when a solo is going to happen of a dynamic shift, freaks them out.

Also I barely get in any practice, about 10 hours a week. If I practiced more my playing would be much much better.
 
#72
Dr_Funkdamental said:
:rolleyes: Thats a VERY BIG generalization. a nice "SOME" placed in your statement would be appreciated. Im not catching feelings, but Im actually one of those "talented" ppl. How do you know how well talented ppl practice?? There are SOME on here that have admitted it, but it aint everyone. I have quite a musical talent and Im proud to know it, but I do recognize that ability starts the race, but its discipline that finishes. I put more that 2 hrs a day on sometimes 3 different instruments (yes quality time). So I dont know who you hang around, but dont pass that off on the rest. :cool:
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Cool.

I stand by what I said, 100%.
 
#75
well, here's the thing. we're all practicing towards something, going a certain direction, or certain directions... so there's two criteria that a musician (or anyone else) is judged on, and that's which direction a person is going, and how far they went. originality is finding a new direction, while talent just means you cover more ground in the direction you go. but if you want to be as good as someone who practices twice as much as you, you'd better be damn talented or really original or photogenic or some fluke.
 
#76
spindizzy said:
Natural talent + 0 work = good player
0 Natural talent + Hard work = good player

Natural talent + Hard work = genius (or at least that is how it's worked out for everyone from Jaco to Sting and Coltrane to Bill Clements (a singular and shining example of the benefits of hard work)).
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This is still my favorite of any formulas/equations offered, though I might downgrade "talent + 0 work" to "decent" or "adequate" and I doubt there are many people that have absolutely zero talent but still put in the work. If you change "0" to "a small amount" then I agree completely.
 
#77
I watched a special yesterday on the making of the movie "300" (which looks AMAZING, by the way). The special was on the conditioning of the actors to make them look like Spartan Warriors. The trainer, who was built like a brick sh*thouse, said the key was to do something different everyday, to confuse the body so it is constantly working towards improvement.

If you have been practicing but feel like you've hit a wall, try something totally different. Jazz. Reggae. Afro-cuban Rhthyms. Get out of your comfort zone. This may inspire you to get past the plateau, so to speak. I remember reading that Billy Sheehan has totally "reconstructed" his playing style several times throughout his career to keep himself constantly learning.

My $.02, FWIW.
 
#79
I think i have very little talent. I'm just a hard worker, and will work hours on individual tunes to make them as close to the original recording I can get. Bass never came easy, but I've worked hard over the years to improve myself. But I'll never be Geddy Lee or Stu Hamm. Just ain't in the cards.
 
#80
Skel said:
For me, the whole thing is about transferring what is in your head, through your body/fingers, to the instrument. That's not easy but it makes "practicing" not really practicing, to me. If you can't hear it in your mind's ear, I think all the practice in the world isn't going to help that much.
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I'm glad to hear that this is the case. In fact, it's my main problem. When I listen to music or when jamming I'm always thinking about something that would sound so badass, but I don't know where the bleeping notes are at on the fretboard. I've gotten a little better with this over the years but I'm totally stuck in a rut for the most part.

I'm not going to hi-jack this thread, but I have a question for Jeff Schmidt: In your interview which was linked to above, you said the following:

We eventually moved into music theory and harmony. When Michael showed my how to map the fingerboard with essentially five shapes that covered all major scale harmony--and when I discovered the shapes didn't change from key to key--it was like someone turned on the sun

What are these five shapes? This is the kind of knowledge that I'm desperate to learn.

Thanks,

Monkus
 

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