An alternative to a detailed design analysis would be to simply measure the preamp gain and frequency response curves of the two amps. This is non-invasive and can be done with PC software.
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Talked to Eden Tech about the E300T
- Thread starter jazz3625tonic
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An alternative to a detailed design analysis would be to simply measure the preamp gain and frequency response curves of the two amps. This is non-invasive and can be done with PC software.
. . . So, those that truly care could actually purchase these amps for testing and analysis. . . Wow, looks like a prime opportunity for a certain group of people to pool their resources, make the purchases, do the testing (in an independent, objective manner, of course), and satisfy their great curiosity!
Paging Mr Tom Bowlus........ Would a Mr Bowlus please report to the front office?
You know the more I think about it. This whole situation is really no different than the previous one concerning the Eden VT300 that was manufactured by Koch. There were three versions of this amp (Koch KB2500, Sadowsky SA200 and Eden VT300) that were all manufactured by Koch to differing specifications according to the preferences of each manufacturer. No one had any problem with that situation as I recall. In fact, the Sadowksy amp is one of the most prized finds reported here on Talkbass given it's limited production (and sweet tone...a friend of mine has one). The Eden VT300 is also highly regarded and doesn't last long when a used one rarely comes up for sale.
So in this case, we have the amp company in China (likely Smarvo) that is manufacturing a "new" tube head design incorporating a switching power supply to cut down on weight. Eden appears to be using the basic amp architecture but with it's preamp voicing and some other internal tweaks according to them. But it's a tube amp right (ie not exactly cutting edge technology) so how much is there to tweak really? Similarly, the Ashton, Fame and Smarvo amps are sort of like the Sadowsky and Koch versions of the Koch tube amp.
If I, or anyone else in North America wants to buy either of these amps, the Eden E300T is the obvious choice both from a cost and warranty perspective. So speaking for myself, nuff said, I'm satisfied.
Well, I'll still look at the picture of the Eden if it gets posted.
But to tell you the truth, it won't factor into my final purchase as much as I had originally thought. ~$1100 street price for a 300W tube bass amp is a damn good deal, especially considering what a new Ampeg SVT is going for these days. Oh yeah...those are made in Asia as well.
Cheers,
Duff2
So in this case, we have the amp company in China (likely Smarvo) that is manufacturing a "new" tube head design incorporating a switching power supply to cut down on weight. Eden appears to be using the basic amp architecture but with it's preamp voicing and some other internal tweaks according to them. But it's a tube amp right (ie not exactly cutting edge technology) so how much is there to tweak really? Similarly, the Ashton, Fame and Smarvo amps are sort of like the Sadowsky and Koch versions of the Koch tube amp.
If I, or anyone else in North America wants to buy either of these amps, the Eden E300T is the obvious choice both from a cost and warranty perspective. So speaking for myself, nuff said, I'm satisfied.
Well, I'll still look at the picture of the Eden if it gets posted.
But to tell you the truth, it won't factor into my final purchase as much as I had originally thought. ~$1100 street price for a 300W tube bass amp is a damn good deal, especially considering what a new Ampeg SVT is going for these days. Oh yeah...those are made in Asia as well.
Cheers,
Duff2
Duff, I wish I could figure out the point of your post. Are you saying that the Fame/Eden amp and the Koch/Eden amp are the same thing? Are you saying the Fame/Eden amp is as good as the SVT because the SVT's made in Vietnam now and costs about $400 more? I'm not following you at all.
- Apr 3, 2003
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Sorry Jimmy if I was not clear. I was trying to draw parallels between the Ashton/Fame/Eden and Koch/Sadowsky/Eden situations. My SVT comparison was just to highlight the fact that just because it is built in Asia, doesn't mean that it is necessarily cheaply built or cheap to buy. No comparison based on quality was meant to be implied.
Cheers,
Duff2
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Duff, I agree with you that Asian manufacture isn't bad. Heck, virtually all my Macintosh computers come from there...
Ampeg seems to be getting better, too. I'm hearing a lot fewer complaints about their gear on here.
I had a preamp tube problem with my Fame, don't have the serial in hand, though...
You miss the point. I'm not attempting to find out if they are the exact same amp down to the last resistor. I'll leave that for those with "knowledge, experience, and the subsequent ability to competently analyze the circuits". My curiosity is to see if they are coming from the same design, and hence if EDEN has been misleading in it's statements about having designed this amp. That should be easy enough to do with pictures.
Clearly every miniscule element might not be identical, but with pictures, it was clear to see in the FAME vs Ashton thread that everything that could be seen was the same, and hence that they shared a common design, and probably same manufacture. If the Eden is opened up and looks just like the Fame, then that will satisfy the question I am asking.
As for "sensational Inuendo" I think that alot of folks are interested in this topic, and see it rather as an interesting investigation. You are welcome to your opinions of course.
Now then, the wait for the pic. Ironically, this thread may dissuade some TB'ers from purchasing the amp, and may make the wait for pictures even longer.
MikeBass
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Ya know....really, none of it matters how it came to be.
If Eden (and Lame) claim to have completely re-worked/redesigned the amp and they didn't, then ethicly they lose. It just goes to show if a company's claims are true, and if they are not, then make your decision with you checkbook (really though, does anyone use a checkbook any more??).
But, IF that is the case as stated above and it still makes you all tingly in your "special place" when you play through it........then you win.
If Eden (and Lame) claim to have completely re-worked/redesigned the amp and they didn't, then ethicly they lose. It just goes to show if a company's claims are true, and if they are not, then make your decision with you checkbook (really though, does anyone use a checkbook any more??).
But, IF that is the case as stated above and it still makes you all tingly in your "special place" when you play through it........then you win.
That is your opinion, but it does matter to me. The truthfullness of a company is important to me because honesty is a huge part of customer service and good customer service one of my priorities when doing business with a company. If a company is misleading me about their design progress, then I'd rather not do business with them, no matter how tingly the amp makes me feel.
That said, there is also a simple satisfaciton in the posibility of exposing untruthfullness in advertising.
Lastly, even those who want one, and don't care if it's a Smarvo should be interested in it's origins. If it is a rebadged Smarvo (or very close to one), then you have the experiences of Fame and Ashton customers throughout the world to assist in your buying decision.
I'm with Duff on this. I think that Eden sourced a decent but 'cost effective' design and amended it to incorporate a few improvements in sound- maybe to make it more "Eden". Smaller changes in circuit topology would result in slightly different PCB traces which could change the sound significantly even though they look identical- so photos wouldn't really tell us a great deal aside from what we're already pretty certain of ie: that they came from the same factory.
But what it DOES mean is that it shares the same build quality as its cheaper brothers. This is not a hanging offence in itself as they are offering this to the market at a pretty fair price for a tube head.
What I think they should have done is sold it as a Nemesis tube head and kept the VT300 as the Eden tube head.
But what it DOES mean is that it shares the same build quality as its cheaper brothers. This is not a hanging offence in itself as they are offering this to the market at a pretty fair price for a tube head.
What I think they should have done is sold it as a Nemesis tube head and kept the VT300 as the Eden tube head.
Dude, what's with you and your "slipping on banana peels" analogy? Makes no sense whatsoever to me...
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