Tapered B string - is this normal?

[BismarckHerring]

I've been curious about tapered strings for a while now, so I decided to try one, a Dunlop 130T NPS. The good news: it feels and sounds great on the first five frets, probably the best of any B string I've tried.

The bad news: beyond the fifth fret it sounds progressively worse the higher up the neck I go. It sounds like a ring modulator.

In the attached example, I play a scale starting on the 3rd fret and ending on the 24th fret. Not that I'd ever go that high, but I do care about the notes up to the 12th fret, and ideally, I'd like it to sound usable up to the 15th fret. I tried it yesterday with my band, and I started to notice it at the 6th fret, and it sounded outright bad beyond the 9th.

I've seen a couple of other threads discussing this. Apparently it's called inharmonicity and other people have experienced it too. I was wondering how common this is. Is this a tradeoff you have to make for having a great sounding/feeling B string on the lower frets? If I could get the benefits without the downsides, that would be great.

The taper starts 2,5 cm from the saddle, which seems quite far. Maybe that's the problem? Using washers or stringing through the body to bring the taper closer to the saddle is not an option: the bridge design isn't great for that, and the taper on the other end of the string begins only half a centimeter beyond the nut (the bass is 35 inch scale). Does anyone know of a B string where the taper begins around 5 cm from the ball end?

 

[Fuzzbass]

One of the tricks of making a tapered B work properly is for the tapered part at the ball end to be just long enough to clear the saddle without extending too far beyond.

This is my frustration with some tapered strings. Some seem to have long tapered sections to accommodate thru-body stringing, which makes the taper far too long for "top-load" stringing (i.e. thru the bridge but not thru the body). As some have noted, weird stuff can happen when the taper is too long.

 

[Chris Chong]

The taper length actually looks normal with reference to a sadowsky setup video.
I don’t rmb having issues on mine.

 

[michael_t]

The taper length actually looks normal with reference to a sadowsky setup video.
I don’t rmb having issues on mine.
View attachment 7465628

The strings in the pic I posted earlier of the Ibanez were Sadowsky Blue Label Stainless Rounds. The B sounded horrible because of the way the tapered end was too long for this particular bass.

 

[Chris Chong]

I went on the taper B string journey, and after a while, concluded that it depends on the bass. My KS burner and YamahaBB sounded fine with normal fully wound B strings.

 

[micguy]

A tapered string sits lower in the saddle (because it's a smaller diameter at the bridge). Hence, it's closer to the pickups, which means it's gonna warble if you don't raise it to where the bulk of the string is in the same position as an untapered string. Height adjustment is something you need to do whenever you change from a tapered string to a straight string or vice versa.

Said another way, your string isn't warbling because it's tapered, it's warbling because it's too low - and thus too close to the pickups. Being too low is a result of using a tapered string and not adjusting the geometry at the bridge to accommodate.

You may have to think a few seconds about this before you get it, but once you do, it'll make perfect sense.

 

[sawzalot]

This is a great thread, I was considering a tapered B on one of my basses and I learned a new thing here today. Even after playing for almost 40 years I still learn things from this forum.

 

[BismarckHerring]

A tapered string sits lower in the saddle (because it's a smaller diameter at the bridge). Hence, it's closer to the pickups, which means it's gonna warble if you don't raise it to where the bulk of the string is in the same position as an untapered string. Height adjustment is something you need to do whenever you change from a tapered string to a straight string or vice versa.

Said another way, your string isn't warbling because it's tapered, it's warbling because it's too low - and thus too close to the pickups. Being too low is a result of using a tapered string and not adjusting the geometry at the bridge to accommodate.

You may have to think a few seconds about this before you get it, but once you do, it'll make perfect sense.

No, I get it and I considered the possibility. But I raised the saddle and lowered the pickups quite a bit, and it didn’t help. Stringing through the body, and thereby moving the taper closer to the saddle, did.

Maybe I just got unlucky and got a bad string. Maybe I didn’t crimp it correctly before cutting it (it’s a hex core string, so I wouldn’t expect this to be an issue, but who knows?).

 

[BismarckHerring]

The taper length actually looks normal with reference to a sadowsky setup video.
I don’t rmb having issues on mine.
View attachment 7465628

Interesting, maybe there’s something wrong with the string then.

 

[fauxtoe]

Interesting, maybe there’s something wrong with the string then.

Nope. The string just does not play well with that bridge/bass. Had the exact same problem on the newest of my Gould GGI5 basses which came with a tapered B. Tried another string with a shorter taper and had the same results. As soon as I swapped for a no taper B all was right in the world and has been ever since. No issues with action or intonation whatsoever and it plays clean and "modulation" free. It was so embarrassingly bad that you could hear it on a live recording when I fretted the E on the 5th fret. I immediately ripped those strings off and chucked them in the trash.

Previous owner of my other GGi5 had the same problem, but he figured it out before it was sold to me. Some basses just do not like tapered strings.

 

[bass nitro]

That's what I suspected. The distance is clearly much longer than it needs to be. Unfortunately, with this particular string and bass, I don't see an option to change it.
View attachment 7465482

Just change with non tapered one to make contact point bigger and better and will be ok.Some bridges do not like tapered strings.Also, pickup might be closer then usually.

 

[Wasnex]

The bad news: beyond the fifth fret it sounds progressively worse the higher up the neck I go. It sounds like a ring modulator.

I believe you are describing inharmonicity. The harmonics start to go sharp as you play higher on the neck. This is caused mostly by string stiffness. As the string gets shorter it becomes effectively stiffer. As a result, the string starts to vibrate more like a solid metal rod, rather than a perfect string.

AFAIK tapered is supposed to help with inharmonicity, but AFAIK results can be unpredictable....meaning it varies by bass and you may get worse inharmonicity with tapered strings.

The thickness of the string is a significant factor to stiffness. This is why inharmonicity become more of a problem as you move to lower strings. My #1 is a Yamaha TRB6P and I start to hear inharmonicity on the B string around the 4th or 5th fret. On the E string of many basses I have played, inharmonicity starts around 10th-12th fret. I have always used tapered strings on the Yamaha, and would like to try untapered.

The magnetic pull from the pickups is also a contributing factory. Discontinuities in the string construction can also be a factor.

FYI, Another string construction that is intended to help with inharmonicity is lumped strings. Basically a mass is added to the string near the bridge saddle. If I remember correctly, results vary by bass with lumped strings as well. They are great with some basses and awful with others.

 

[fauxtoe]

I believe you are describing inharmonicity. The harmonics start to go sharp as you play higher on the neck. This is caused mostly by string stiffness. As the string gets shorter it becomes effectively stiffer. As a result, the string starts to vibrate more like a solid metal rod, rather than a perfect string.

AFAIK tapered is supposed to help with inharmonicity, but AFAIK results can be unpredictable....meaning it varies by bass and you may get worse inharmonicity with tapered strings.

The thickness of the string is a significant factor to stiffness. This is why inharmonicity become more of a problem as you move to lower strings. My #1 is a Yamaha TRB6P and I start to hear inharmonicity on the B string around the 4th or 5th fret. On the E string of many basses I have played, inharmonicity starts around 10th-12th fret. I have always used tapered strings on the Yamaha, and would like to try untapered.

The magnetic pull from the pickups is also a contributing factory. Discontinuities in the string construction can also be a factor.

FYI, Another string construction that is intended to help with inharmonicity is lumped strings. Basically a mass is added to the string near the bridge saddle. If I remember correctly, results vary by bass with lumped strings as well. They are great with some basses and awful with others.

This. Ditch the tapered B and I bet it all goes away.

 

[BismarckHerring]

This. Ditch the tapered B and I bet it all goes away.

Yeah, that's what I decided to do. I put the old B string back on, and everything is fine again. Apparently, my bass (Sire M5) just doesn't get along with tapered strings.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Yeah, that's what I decided to do. I put the old B string back on, and everything is fine again. Apparently, my bass (Sire M5) just doesn't get along with tapered strings.

To be fair, you're only working with a sample size of one. Bad strings happen, it could be that there's a flaw in the string unrelated to tapering. But strings aren't cheap, so no one will blame you for sticking with non-tapered from now on.

 

[BismarckHerring]

To be fair, you're only working with a sample size of one. Bad strings happen, it could be that there's a flaw in the string unrelated to tapering. But strings aren't cheap, so no one will blame you for sticking with non-tapered from now on.

True, and maybe I’ll try another one some time. If I’ve learned anything from this thread is that there’s very little we can say about what will work and what won’t.

 

[Nedmundo]

Great, very helpful thread. I installed Dean Markley SR200 strings with a tapered B on my G&L M-2500 last week, and it hasn't been smooth sailing. The string was too thick to go through the body, so I strung through the bridge. (I've had to do this before, but none of those strings were tapered.)

I raised the saddle to account for the taper, but intonation was a nightmare. I went through a few rounds of adjustments, and had to move the saddle toward the neck almost as far as it would go. This made it acceptable up to about the 10th fret. Fortunately, as the string has broken in, the intonation seems to have improved. It sounded great at rehearsals last week, and I rarely use the B string above the seventh fret anyway.

But lesson learned: I'm avoiding tapered B strings from now on, especially .130 or larger.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I raised the saddle to account for the taper, but intonation was a nightmare. I went through a few rounds of adjustments, and had to move the saddle toward the neck almost as far as it would go. This made it acceptable up to about the 10th fret. Fortunately, as the string has broken in, the intonation seems to have improved. It sounded great at rehearsals last week, and I rarely use the B string above the seventh fret anyway.

But lesson learned: I'm avoiding tapered B strings from now on, especially .130 or larger.

This is an issue I have with a Soundgear with the infamous over-compensated monorail array. I'm pushing it with conventional full-wrap B's...no way I can coax any further travel forward.

 

[konaaayukeeenee]

I've also had a negative experiences with tapered B strings (.120 gauge). My issue was more similar to @Nedmundo's where it wouldn't intonate above the 12th fret. It was unlikely a bum string since a different one had the same issue. The tapered portion extended up to about 1.5cm from the saddle which apparently is still a bit longer than ideal, and one of the suggestions to shorten it is one thing I've yet to test.

But yeah, that and seeing threads like these discourages me from trying them again.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I use a D'addario XL 160 for B. Having tried both tapered and non tapered, I prefer the tapered. The tapered section is a little over 2" in length and extends around 1/2" beyond the saddle.
The tapered has more definition. Intonation was the same tapered or non tapered. No issues there.

 

[Prodigus Filius]