They aren't. Only GHS black nylon tapewounds are flat under the tape: everything else has roundwound innards.
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Tapewound Strings Info
- Thread starter mdlewis
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Well, Okay...
First of all, my experience with different tape wound strings is... limited. I've used La Bella Black Tapes; D'Addario ETB92 Tapes; and Rotosound RS88 TruBass Tapes. Currently, I've settled on the Roto's... Like flats and rounds, tapes can - and do - vary quite a bit, depending on the brand and "model". Just depends on what you want to hear...
Next; your questions...
1. I'd characterize the tapes I've used, as generally "woodier" than flats (which I also use - a LOT), and a lot more low-end oriented. As for "attack, decay, harmonics....."? That depends a lot on the bass. I use them on short and medium scale basses, and the short scale ones are hollow bodies. There are very little/no harmonics with a short scale hollow-body bass - regardless of the strings. The Roto 88's were originally intended to emulate an upright bass (a "True Bass"), and they do a good job of it. My medium scale bass - a Canadian-made '93 Fury Anthem lined fretless - was built specifically to sound like an upright, and to use tape wounds only. It sounds scarily close to one, too. My shorties with tapes sound pretty upright-ish, too. So, I'd class most tape wounds as sounding sort of like an upright bass - depending on the bass they're on.
2. Flexibility. In my experience? No, they aren't particularly flexible. Not bridge cable stiff, but not flexible. Particularly short scale Roto 88s... I used long scale La Bella Blacks and the D'Addario ETB92-5's on a bass strung BEAD. The 135 B strings - in that scenario - were flexible - too flexible, compared to the other 3 strings, anyway. They ultimately got replaced with bridge cable stiff Roto RS77LD5 Monel Flats. The 130 B string made me much happier...
3. Signal strength. I imagine that the signal from tapes would be measurably weaker that that from flats or rounds. Whether or not you could actually hear it - all other things being equal - I'd say, was... debatable. In any case? I've never noticed a problem...
4. How long do they last? Well, the Roto 88's on my MIK Rogue VB-100 Violin Bass are about 15 years old, now - and still sound like they should. I have some flats (TI Jazz Flats) that are the same age; and still sound like they should, too. So, IME? Take reasonable care of tape wounds, and they can last a good long time. But, if you do a lot of bending, and/or play hard? They probably won't last as long as flats. That nylon outer wrap will not outlast your frets... As for "particular issues"? Depending on the bass they're on, grounding - and humming, unless you touch them - can be a problem. Particularly if they're strung thru-body. The only bass I've ever had that "problem" with, is my Fury Anthem - which is string-thru-body only. But, since it was made to use tape wounds exclusively? It's not a problem, unless I max the Gain on my amp out. Normally, I can barely hear it - and then, only because I know it's there. Top load your tapes, and you should not have a problem. On my VB-100? They don't hum at all; and they never did on my BEAD bass, either...
5. Do I use them regularly? Yes, I do. Why? For a good portion of what I like to play, they give me the sound and tonal response that I want. A lot of what I like to play, was originally performed - and often recorded - with an upright bass. Since there are very few left handed uprights - and I can't physically play one, anyhow - tapes wounds on some of my basses allow me to at least get close to that sound...
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I know the OP mentions watching Youtube vids with tapes on short scales. But doesn’t specifically mention putting them on a short scale. But if so, point taken about the short scale gauge variation with the La Bella and the that GHS dont do a short scale tape set
This fact significantly lessens the number of available options. Out of the major brands, your choices are:
D'Addario
La Bella (Black Nylons and White Nylons)
Pyramid
RotoSound
Given your previously stated sonic goals, D'Addario would be my suggestion.
Happy shopping.
How long is the string path ( specifically: from where the ball end gets stopped, to the low E tuning post)?
Tapes differ between brands/models as tapes are a full set of wound strings with a nylon wrap over the top and there is no standard for the type of string underneath. There are roundwound strings under the nylon in most cases (I think the GHS set is either flat or ground wound, there may be another flat as well), but different materials used (nickel-plated, steel, and in the case of some of the LaBellas sometimes other non-ferrous materials as well). The tone of tapes can go all the way from Paul McCartney thump from most of the early Beatles stuff to Graham Maby clarity with Joe Jackson to Entwhistle in My Generation. I don't think they sound particularly "upright", but with an extreme setup (very high action and probably some muting) they might get closer than most other electric strings if you grab the right set (avoid the LaBellas white varieties, they are brighter/thinner-sounding. I recall the D'addarios, Rotosounds, and LaBella Blacks being capable of getting pretty thumpy).
As mentioned, the nylon doesn't add tension but does increase the measured gauge significantly so if you want something similar in tension to a typical roundwound then you'll need the heavier gauge of tapes (which will often require enlarging the nut slots on your bass).
As mentioned, the nylon doesn't add tension but does increase the measured gauge significantly so if you want something similar in tension to a typical roundwound then you'll need the heavier gauge of tapes (which will often require enlarging the nut slots on your bass).
Actually you were right he he as the OP has clarified. Hollow bodied short scale.
I’m not sure I agree with @ajkula66, unless I missed something.
Of the five available options, if your sonic goal is upright, I would definitely go with Rotos, followed by Pyramids, D’Addario, La Bella Black and La Bella White last.
You will most likely have to alter your nut if you go with the Rotos or Pyramids, though, and the tension for the D’Addarios will be very low.
Another option, albeit a more expensive one, would be to contact Pyramid to have a custom set made. They offer the following gauges:
.032 .035 .046 .051 .055 .060 .067 .075 .080 .086 .090 .094 .100 .105 .109 .115 .124 .135
You could get something in between the D’Addarios and the Rotos/Pyramids, so it would sound more upright, you wouldn’t have to alter your nut and it would feel tighter. So a .109 E, for example, would feel like a .100 round.
Of the five available options, if your sonic goal is upright, I would definitely go with Rotos, followed by Pyramids, D’Addario, La Bella Black and La Bella White last.
You will most likely have to alter your nut if you go with the Rotos or Pyramids, though, and the tension for the D’Addarios will be very low.
Another option, albeit a more expensive one, would be to contact Pyramid to have a custom set made. They offer the following gauges:
.032 .035 .046 .051 .055 .060 .067 .075 .080 .086 .090 .094 .100 .105 .109 .115 .124 .135
You could get something in between the D’Addarios and the Rotos/Pyramids, so it would sound more upright, you wouldn’t have to alter your nut and it would feel tighter. So a .109 E, for example, would feel like a .100 round.
Tapewounds with a foam mute on a p bass gives a real earthy, woody tone, with a nice thump and short sustain. I only have experience with D'addario tapes, but that was the sound I was looking for. To my ears, the sound is much more upright like than any flats I've tried on an electric. The only thing (other than an actual upright) that comes closer is a U-Bass with aquila flat spirals.
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As andupright player who mostly used brighter upright strings, they do not sound like those strings, even when I had guts and duller pizz strings like Bel Canto, But it really depends on the player to emulate the sound ,
I have only tried 3 tape. La Bella White, LA Bella Copper White and D;Addario black, They go from brightest to least bright in that order and output wise lowest to loudest. They last long but I would give La Bellas the edge. Grounding wise - I had issues with the La Bella copper and had to insert a bare wire to ground them properly - probably the black bridge did not help.
Most flats will go deeper thump than the warmest of tapes. From my experience and from other basses I've played with tapes.
I have only tried 3 tape. La Bella White, LA Bella Copper White and D;Addario black, They go from brightest to least bright in that order and output wise lowest to loudest. They last long but I would give La Bellas the edge. Grounding wise - I had issues with the La Bella copper and had to insert a bare wire to ground them properly - probably the black bridge did not help.
Most flats will go deeper thump than the warmest of tapes. From my experience and from other basses I've played with tapes.
Grounding will be an issue with all tapewounds, and the reason I don’t really use them with normal passive magnetic pickups (piezos and most active pickups are usually fine as they are less sensitive to external noise). A bridge ground is meant to create a ground path to your body when you touch the strings, and the nylon wrap ensures your body isn’t contacting a grounded conductive material. You can get around this using something like a grounded bracelet or other workaround, but that’s a potentially sketchy way to do things due to shock potential- especially live if you might be playing in places with funky wiring.
I suspect the Labella copper and gold tapes are more problematic because they are significantly lower output magnetically (part of the metal string in both of those designs is totally non-ferrous) and so the overall signal to noise ratio is much lower. I had that issue with the Labellas Gold-White tapes, which were my favorite of their tapes tone-wise but so low output with a magnetic pickup that I could only really get away with using them with quiet active EMGs or the piezo on my Godin
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This has not been my experience.
I've got two almost identical passive basses. The one that wears D'Addario tapes has no hum whatsoever, while its sibling with La Bella White Nylons does sport a grounding issue. Identical bridges, neck pickups...etc. etc.
My $0.02 only...
I don't have any hum on my passive Squier with D'addario tapes either.
What basses/pickups? And are you talking of the LaBella Whites or LaBella Copper Whites? The Labella Copper and Gold White Tapes are very low output due to incorporating totally non-ferrous metals in the design, so as mentioned those strings will accentuate any sort of noise issues due to a lower signal to noise ratio. The standard LaBella Whites are steel strings, and I believe the D'addario's are steel as well but with "high-carbon" which means relatively higher output (and so lower relative noise). There is nothing mechanically different between the construction of the D'addarios vs the LaBella that would cause grounding differences- in both cases they are conductive metal strings where the only ground contact is via the bridge to the ball-end (assuming bridge vs body mount) and neither conducts to you via strings as the nylon is non-conductive in both cases.
The only noise that tapewounds will accentuate is the noise that happens when you remove your fingers from the strings on a typical bass- this is usually high-frequency noise, so "buzz" mostly. This is RFI noise that your body tends to pick up and transmits to the instrument via proximity (your body is essentially a big antenna for noise). In a well shielded bass or in lower noise environments this kind of noise might not be much issue at all to begin with- when I lived in Los Angeles my basses with tapes buzzed like crazy. If you don't have buzz when you don't touch the strings with normal strings then you'll also likely not have issues with tapes (unfortunately not my experience in my environments).
I have 7 basses that I consider my main players - all short scales and 4 of them wear Daddario black nylon tapes. The other 3 wear 3 different types of flats. I've tried almost every tapewound on the market and they definitely all vary quite a bit in feel and tone. The Daddarios have a nice velvety silky feel, they're relatively low tension, but not as low as TI flats. They have great output, excellent sustain, nice punch and a flat-like fundamental, but more high mids and treble than most flats. Very responsive to changes in plucking/picking hand attack too. Certainly no issues cutting through the mix. I've played them in many different environments including plenty of bars with questionable wiring but never experienced any grounding buzz issues. Here's a recording of my heavily modified '62 Gibson EB-0 (Bartolini neck humbucker, Barden 51 scpb middle, Barden Rick bridge, dual JTEX Distiller filters), plugged straight into a 60s Guild Thunderstar Bass head and Genzler 2x12cab
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Two '69 Gibson EB series basses. Both have Sidewinders/Mudbuckers in the neck position. One sports a stock bridge humbucker while the other one has a Bartolini. Hipshot bridges on both. The one with stock electronics wears D'Addarios and is hum-free. The other one has White Nylons - Copper Whites are not available in short scale - and has a bit of a ground hum.
BTW, my two Les Paul Basses with low impedance pickups are both dead quiet. One has Pyramid tapes and the other one White Nylons, but these pickups are quite different from what one normally finds on a bass which is why I haven't mentioned them in my previous post.
My experiences only.
I suspect either the noise difference is simply a difference in output between strings or pickups, a difference in shielding, or something unrelated entirely. Of course if the Bartolini is a single coil that would be the first place to look. The only way to really take the strings out of the equation would be to swap them and see if the noise followed the bass or the strings (but again, the LaBellas are probably lower output, and so inherently also higher noise to a degree).
Low-impedance pickups indeed are atypical in the sense that they have less coil to pick up noise- assuming of course that their output is then boosted later in the chain without adding additional noise (that is the basis of many active pickups too).
Anyway I think my point may have been lost? noise isn't inherent from using tapewounds (they don't create noise themselves), they just make existing environmental noise potentially a bigger issue by eliminating the body-grounding that the vast majority of electric guitars have used for years to decrease noise. I've had plenty of my own empirical examples to back this up, and it isn't some new theory. I remember years ago that Roger Sadowsky even penned an article about it in one of the instrument magazines (he also discussed the same issue inherent in many coated strings like Elixirs before some companies started making conductive coatings)
