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TARA Labs cable challenge!!
- Thread starter ModulusFan
- Start date
- Status
This post was on 12/11/03.
Someone seems to have stumbled as they stepped up to the plate. it seems that 17 days would be adequate time to ship a few cables.
This is starting to rank right up there with "the check is in the mail". Could it be that someone thinks that this whole thing will go away if it's ignored long enough?
Harrell S.
I'm not ignoring it, but am still waiting.
I was selected to be a tester for a string company, and have been waiting 3 months for the strings, yet they keep sending me emails letting me know they will be on their way soon.
I've wondered if I should include these delays in the reviews or not, had I paid for these items and it took this long, I would be most unhappy.
I was selected to be a tester for a string company, and have been waiting 3 months for the strings, yet they keep sending me emails letting me know they will be on their way soon.
I've wondered if I should include these delays in the reviews or not, had I paid for these items and it took this long, I would be most unhappy.
Awww c'mon guys, it is the season to be jolly. A lot of people take holiday at this time of year and many business operate on a skeleton staff.
Any other time of year and these delays would be harder to accept. But I say we let it be until Jan 2004.
Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!!
Any other time of year and these delays would be harder to accept. But I say we let it be until Jan 2004.
Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!!
My apologies, Tim. I certainly didn't mean that you were ignoring the issue.
I think that every broken promise, including shipping promises that aren't met should be included in the report.
It may appear that CB is being attacked. He's not. If Taras claims are upheld in a test, thier business should boom just from TB members. If the claims are unfounded the truth will come out. I think that the truth is being avoided. Plain and simple.
Harrell S.
Well, not from this one. First, their claims will not be upheld. Second, even if they are, I wouldn't buy them just because the sonic difference would not justify the price. The places we play are so noisy that even a "golden ear" wouldn't hear the difference.
This is snake oil, plain and simple. I mock all of you true believers.
You are probably as close as you'll ever get to recieving any cables from Tara.
Sorry PKR, while I have tried to remain neutral in this debate, I have to keep a close eye on these threads, and keep them "clean"
Sorry PKR, while I have tried to remain neutral in this debate, I have to keep a close eye on these threads, and keep them "clean"
This is not intended as an attack on Tim or Long or anybody else, but what, exactly, was the testing *procedure* supposed to be? If it's just subjective impressions, with no blinding and no objective assessment and no attempts to avoid obvious sources of potential user bias, that's kinda worthless AFAIAC, for all the reasons detailed at length here and in the other, even longer, thread. It doesn't matter how many people test it or who they are if the way the test is put together renders it incapable of establishing anything.
No offense Richard, but did you really think I was going to turn this stuff loose with a bunch of kids in their basement with their Ibanez, and rockbasses? As a matter of fact, I have compiled quite the impressive list of testers, but did not want to post it just yet, in case TARA decided to pull their chips off the table, which it seems to be the case anyhow. This irritates me more than a little, as I went to the trouble to try to put something together on this, just to get no response in the end. Here are the people that were selected to test the stuff.
Gard Lewis: Every bass amp you can think of on hand on a daily basis, quite the knowledgeable gear cat.
John Turner: Like Gard, everyone knows John, and he knows his stuff. A degree in electrical engineering could provide the basis for many different tests.
Bob Lee (QSC): Bob definitelty has the means to bench test the cables, with scientific proof one way or another.
SMASH: He was one of the more vocal opposers to the theory (or lack thereof) behind the products.
Xush (Xush studios): provides a studio enviornment, and many different pieces of equipment to test on, compare recordings, etc.
There may have been one or more guys yet that were to test, but honestly due to the delays, this is all I can think of off the top of my head. I'd have to check my past PM's to verify it.
I'll give this a few days, and if the lack of participation continues, I will close the threads down, and chalk it up as a waste of time.
Thanks, Tim--and no, I wasn't really envisioning you handing the things over to the kidz in the basement.
That is a pretty knowledgeable bunch of testers.Still, I perhaps didn't make clear what I was trying to say. Even smart, experienced people have been known to fool themselves (and each other) over stuff like this. So even if you had Victor Wooten, Anthony Jackson, Michael Manring, and Gary Willis testing these things, the findings wouldn't mean much unless you knew *how* they were testing. It's not just about *who* is doing it, it's about *how* it's being done. That's why I asked what the procedure was supposed to be.
I'm not saying any of these guys necessarily wouldn't test scientifically--I rather think the opposite, actually--I'm just saying that an essential part of interpreting whatever their findings may be is to know what the method was. It's not enough just to point out that someone is experienced and skillful; that doesn't make their methods valid in and of itself.
Please don't take this as ragging on you; I respect the efforts you've taken to try to set this test up, especially in the face of apparent nonresponse from the other side. All I'm saying is, if this test is meant to be persuasive or convincing or even instructive, we should know how it's being done.
I thought the best thing about the selected testers was, the many different resources to test. From one guy doing ear sound comparisons, to a scientific test at the QSC labs, and everything in between.
Hey Tim,
I spoke to Long last week and he said the cables should be there anytime.His office is in LA,and Tara Labs main office is in Oregon.He said that he just recieved the invoice from their main office,and said that usually the shipments are not far behind! All I can say is be patent,it usually takes me a while to get them for my store.
John
I spoke to Long last week and he said the cables should be there anytime.His office is in LA,and Tara Labs main office is in Oregon.He said that he just recieved the invoice from their main office,and said that usually the shipments are not far behind! All I can say is be patent,it usually takes me a while to get them for my store.
John
Hi Tim,
I ordered a speaker cable and a few patch cords a while back to try out and although I just got the speaker cord and one of the patch cords I'm still waiting for the other two patch cords to get here. I'm looking forward to your evaluation.
BV
I ordered a speaker cable and a few patch cords a while back to try out and although I just got the speaker cord and one of the patch cords I'm still waiting for the other two patch cords to get here. I'm looking forward to your evaluation.
BV
I got a phone call from them today, the package is to be on it's way as we speak. I'd like to get the selected testers involved in this, with a roadmap, schedule to adhere to, and what testing criteria each tester will be using. We can talk it over and figure it out here in this thread. Anyone with questions is welcome to contact me at [email protected]
Tim
Tim
For what it's worth:
There's 4 types of cables that should be tested:
1) Instrument cables. (These can have measurable differences in capacitance and inductance, are several meters long, and are in the signal path in a section that will see high gain, so some diference in tone *MAY* be perceptible in testing)
2) Interconnect cables. Though in the signal path, I haven't measured significant (order-of-magnitude) differences in capacitance, the cables are short, and the gain level isn't as high as instrument cables. (In other words, it would be less likely to see a significant difference in tone)
3) Speaker cables. Though in the signal path, at the voltage levels (and short lengths) we use, and since we use conventional speaker systems, it's unlikely any tone difference may be perceived. (This has already been confirmed in other independant testing)
4)Power cables. Not in the signal path, and most engineers would argue that these will not impact the sound one bit. (See previous multi-page thread)
I bring this up, not to incite further flames, but to point out that even if the Tara cables can be "heard" for one type of cable (say, the instrument cable), that doesn't automatically mean that they will be sonically superior for another type of cable (say, a power cable).
There's 4 types of cables that should be tested:
1) Instrument cables. (These can have measurable differences in capacitance and inductance, are several meters long, and are in the signal path in a section that will see high gain, so some diference in tone *MAY* be perceptible in testing)
2) Interconnect cables. Though in the signal path, I haven't measured significant (order-of-magnitude) differences in capacitance, the cables are short, and the gain level isn't as high as instrument cables. (In other words, it would be less likely to see a significant difference in tone)
3) Speaker cables. Though in the signal path, at the voltage levels (and short lengths) we use, and since we use conventional speaker systems, it's unlikely any tone difference may be perceived. (This has already been confirmed in other independant testing)
4)Power cables. Not in the signal path, and most engineers would argue that these will not impact the sound one bit. (See previous multi-page thread)
I bring this up, not to incite further flames, but to point out that even if the Tara cables can be "heard" for one type of cable (say, the instrument cable), that doesn't automatically mean that they will be sonically superior for another type of cable (say, a power cable).
Excellent point.
To reassert another point, which is maybe obvious, even if a difference can be heard between TARA instrument cable and some instrument cable X, that does not necessarily *fully* validate their claims even with respect to that particular type of cable. To take an extreme and admittedly somewhat ridiculous example, if a TARA instrument cable is better than, say, a coiled Radio Shack cable, that's cool and no more than one would expect. However, we would also expect that, say, a George L cable, which presumably lacks many or all the TARA Labs advanced features, or a Planet Wave cable, would also be better than the Radio Shack cable. For TARA Labs' claims to be fully borne out, their cables would have to be clearly superior not only to crummy or so-so cables *but also to "better" cables like George L*.
As far as I know, the only controversy is whether the Tara power cord can even make a difference in the sound. As far as one sounding "better", that's purely subjective and not a provable factor.
I think that the reason that a lot of us look forward to the test is that this subject has been worn out before but any conclusion was subjective
There are a lot of us saying that claims have been made that defy the law of physics as we understand them. If the cable makes a difference in the sound, An objective conclusion can be drawn.
I think that the reason that a lot of us look forward to the test is that this subject has been worn out before but any conclusion was subjective
There are a lot of us saying that claims have been made that defy the law of physics as we understand them. If the cable makes a difference in the sound, An objective conclusion can be drawn.
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