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TC Electronics RH450 Quasi-Wattage Ratings Discussion Thread

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#901
Hawaii Islander said:
Too much vitriol expressed in this thread. Some of it seems like phoney baloney piling on. Seems to be an aweful lot of Harpies harping just to be hear themselves screech. "Bad marketing decision TC Electronics". I agree, but I understood that before the second page of this thread. Whatever! Keep on keepin on! ;)
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Right, we'll you can either let it go and continue to be part of the problem or you can stand up for what's right and make a difference ;)
 
#903
JimmyM said:
Right, we'll you can either let it go and continue to be part of the problem or you can stand up for what's right and make a difference ;)
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Jimmy, if you were serious about creating a change in this industry, you would organize musicians to sign a well publicized petition calling on TCE and all other amp manufacturers to use standardized specs in their advertising materials. This thread falls far short of meaningful action. JMHO.

BTW: I am glad you finally got recognized by Ampeg. That was long overdue. ;)
 
#906
well, i don't think you could have possibly been referring to me, but on the off chance, let me explain.

i am not mad at TC Electronics, i will simply never buy their gear... but i probably would not have anyway. i have already said let's give the owner a chance to get back and get settled and we'll hear what he says tomorrow.

i am, however, extremely miffed at their DEFENDERS!! as though we who are pointing out what they did wrong are the problem instead of TCE who lied. sorry if it seems like screeching, but I just have a real problem with enablers who put their heads in the sand.

if this makes me a screeching, piling-on harpy, well....i guess i have been called worse.---:crying:---

/s/ Dave
 
#907
Hawaii Islander said:
Jimmy, if you were serious about creating a change in this industry, you would organize musicians to sign a well publicized petition calling on TCE and all other amp manufacturers to use standardized specs in their advertising materials. This thread falls far short of meaningful action. JMHO.

BTW: I am glad you finally got recognized by Ampeg. That was long overdue. ;)
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LOL! Thanks bro.

Anyway, while you are right, it's about as meaningful as it gets for me. Now if there was a book deal in it for me like Ralph Nader had, maybe I'd do it ;)
 
#910
IHavePeopleSkills.png
 
#911
guy n. cognito said:
Well, you could get some of the engineering folks to do it. Can you imagine Greenboy handling something like this????? ;)
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No, because I can't imagine him getting into this situation. I remember the time, effort and concern he put into his crossover design even though it was free... Because he knew that a lot of folks were trusting him to do it right and do it well. He understands that responsibility.
 
#914
Hawaii Islander said:
Dave, most of the posts that I read of people "defending" TCE were actually not defending the misinformation, but were instead, stating their view of the amp's quality.
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that's the point. THIS THREAD is about the lies, end of story. if they want to start a thread about the amp's quality, no problem.

but doing so here amounts to excusing the misconduct whether they mean for that to be the result or not. further, there have been some who seemed to say "it's no big deal because the amp is good" i, of course, disagree and think it is not only a big deal, but the ONLY DEAL.

the defenders of course have the right to their opinion, but i resent what i have perceived as their attempt to make those who don't like the practice the problem. am i thin skinned? maybe, but i still say this is not the thread to talk about the amps good qualities, many though they may be.

/s/ Dave
 
#915
sawzalot said:
Here's another thing I don't understand. Why is it that one popular manufacturer with three initials in their name has a micro amp out rated at 400 watts, but another (previously mentioned) manufacturer has a line of amps out rated at 600 watts into the same load, but they use the exact same power modules (the ICEPower 125ASX2)? Someone there is playing fast and loose with their specs.
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You have a good point here, though I don't want to give much credibility to the "everyone else does it" defense.

But first, I want to apologize for my last response to a post of yours. I took you for a new arrival to the "watts mean nothing" crowd, but can see now that you are not, and my smartass reply was undeserved.

I guess at some point I got a little jaded with the micro-amp market's manipulation of specs. I knew, or at least suspected, that all of these manufacturers were up to some kind of monkey business and I just accepted that. Maybe that's why I don't feel duped by TC--but this is a rather public outing of their particular spec-related monkey business.
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Most power-spec-fudging that I've been aware of relies on either a too-high distortion number, or overly optimistic assumptions about heat, but there is at least some underlying test, even if flawed. AFAIK, completely-fabricated specs are rare. But that's more an impression than real knowledge; I haven't paid as much attention as you have, apparently. Perhaps I've been too complacent in the assumption that most power ratings are reasonably accurate.

TCE's use of DSP to inflate rated-power is novel, and the degree of inflation is dramatic. Think that explains some of the strong reaction here, because it could set new precedent. Not to say that the old spec-manipulation techniques are not a problem. I think I know the manufacturers you're thinking of (using the same B&O module). I'd like to read more about that, though not necessarily in this thread.
 
#916
Well at risk of being pilloried as a "TCE DEFENDER" I will say that you have to view their decision to BS in context.

We live in a world where Markbass LM2/3 owners walk the earth thinking they are running 500 watt amps. And they do so unaware that Markbass flat out lied about the product spec. Yes, it is in fact a 400 watt amp. (BGM #2 I believe)

We have people saying 'I will never trust or buy a TCE product EVER because they lied.... I will instead go and buy a 600 watt Genz Shuttle. For some reason we don't care that they are claiming it is a 600 watt amp when its power module clearly is not. (ice power module that puts out 2x50 watts of pure thumpin power??!)

But lets just crucify TCE because.... we'll... because THEY lied!
 
#917
Lonesomedave said:
that's the point. THIS THREAD is about the lies, end of story. if they want to start a thread about the amp's quality, no problem.

but doing so here amounts to excusing the misconduct whether they mean for that to be the result or not. further, there have been some who seemed to say "it's no big deal because the amp is good" i, of course, disagree and think it is not only a big deal, but the ONLY DEAL.

the defenders of course have the right to their opinion, but i resent what i have perceived as their attempt to make those who don't like the practice the problem. am i thin skinned? maybe, but i still say this is not the thread to talk about the amps good qualities, many though they may be.

/s/ Dave
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I disagree with the premise that TCE amp owners shouldn't be allowed to state their views, good or bad. IMHO, they should not be berated for it either. And, no I am not a TCE amp owner.
 
#918
Lonesomedave said:
the defenders of course have the right to their opinion, but i resent what i have perceived as their attempt to make those who don't like the practice the problem. am i thin skinned? maybe, but i still say this is not the thread to talk about the amps good qualities, many though they may be.
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QFT. How dare anyone even question us in the slightest for feeling that it's wrong for them to lie about specs? Of course it's wrong! And you people who have a problem with us being up in arms over it should hang your heads in shame.

Except you, Islander...I know you're not questioning anything but the repetition.
 
#919
vin*tone said:
We have people saying 'I will never trust or buy a TCE product EVER because they lied.... I will instead go and buy a 600 watt Genz Shuttle. For some reason we don't care that they are claiming it is a 600 watt amp when its power module clearly is not. (ice power module that puts out 2x50 watts of pure thumpin power??!)

But lets just crucify TCE because.... we'll... because THEY lied!
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References?
 
#920
Hawaii Islander said:
I disagree with the premise that TCE amp owners shouldn't be allowed to state their views, good or bad. IMHO, they should not be berated for it either. And, no I am not a TCE amp owner.
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i wasn't aware they were being prevented from doing so. who is doing that...i'll kick their butts!

i said "THIS thread is not the appropriate place" and I stick by that.

by stating those particular opinions on THIS thread, i merely pointed out that they are, either accidentally or on purpose, excusing the misconduct.

as such, i have stated MY opinion, which, according to you, makes me a screeching harpy (you were talking about me, weren't you...c'mon admit it)

no one is saying who can or cannot express any opinions at all, but if they CHOOSE to do so here, they are just being apologists for TCE.

/s/ Dave
 
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