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Teacher got mad at me last week.

Dr. Cheese

Dr. Cheese

Supporting Member
Mar 3, 2004
57,329
120,680
Metro St. Louis
#1
I am really working on getting a handle on reading. I had been working on a fairly “” “easy” song, Sitting on the Dock of the Bay. I say easy in quotes because Duck Dunn was a master of a subtle change here or there that really brought songs to life. In working on the song, I missed a few spots and I made on significant mistake: I missed the coda. My teacher was annoyed in that he said this is a song I could easily learn by ear, and it should not have taken me so long to read it to the extent that I did. Thinking back, I was tempted to say that I don’t need to pay for ear training. I am trying to learn to truly read, I mess up, but I take it seriously. I have learned some pretty hard stuff by ear, but at least reading parts leads to much better results for me than my ear alone.
 
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#2
Ah, your ornery teacher again ;)

My question to you is was it sight reading or something you’d taken home? The difference being sight reading is having not seen it before.

Maybe what your teacher is trying to tell you is learn it: then you’re just reading the part as a guide to refresh your memory.

It’s also a “fake situation” because if you’re playing in a group you’re not just going to forget the coda and stop while everyone keeps playing. ;)

Break it up into little bits and get it in your ear. Also an automatic knowledge of keys and the fretboard helps with reading. For example if it’s in the key of D I know there are two sharps which are F# and C# and I don’t have to think about it. I learned that many years ago through visualization exercises while taking transit. Nowadays I have to think about it more than 20 years ago. When there’s a scalar passage I don’t have to think consciously about what each note is: it follows the scale of the key. It’s also easy to recognize arpeggios. Of course this advice is coming at you from someone who used to be a very good sight reader and has neglected it for many years ;)

Keep up the good work!
 
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#3
!. if you're trying to learn to read, you should be reading through etudes etc. not "songs", particularly not pop songs that you're going to be playing along to what you hear in your head already. That's not reading.
2. you don't need a teacher to teach you how to read music
 
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#4
craigie said:
Ah, your ornery teacher again ;)

My question to you is was it sight reading or something you’d taken home? The difference being sight reading is having not seen it before.

Maybe what your teacher is trying to tell you is learn it: then you’re just reading the part as a guide to refresh your memory.

It’s also a “fake situation” because if you’re playing in a group you’re not just going to forget the coda and stop while everyone keeps playing. ;)

Break it up into little bits and get it in your ear. Also an automatic knowledge of keys and the fretboard helps with reading. For example if it’s in the key of D I know there are two sharps which are F# and C# and I don’t have to think about it. I learned that many years ago through visualization exercises while taking transit. Nowadays I have to think about it more than 20 years ago. When there’s a scalar passage I don’t have to think consciously about what each note is: it follows the scale of the key. It’s also easy to recognize arpeggios. Of course this advice is coming at you from someone who used to be a very good sight reader and has neglected it for many years ;)

Keep up the good work!
Click to expand...

No, it was not sight reading. I have to step it up on getting all the keys together. I know them on the cycle of fifths, but it is hard for me to what is what in each key from the top of my head.
 
#5
Ed Fuqua said:
!. if you're trying to learn to read, you should be reading through etudes etc. not "songs", particularly not pop songs that you're going to be playing along to what you hear in your head already. That's not reading.
2. you don't need a teacher to teach you how to read music
Click to expand...

Actually reading the chart was a good corrective for what I thought I was hearing in certain parts.
 
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#8
Dr. Cheese said:
I am really working on getting a handle on reading. I had been working on a fairly “” “easy” song, Sitting on the Dock of the Bay. I say easy in quotes because Duck Dunn was a master of a subtle change here or there that really brought songs to life. In working on the song, I missed a few spots and I made on significant mistake: I missed the coda. My teacher was annoyed in that he said this is a song I could easily learn by ear, and it should not have taken me so long to read it to the extent that I did. Thinking back, I was tempted to say that I don’t need to pay for ear training. I am trying to learn to truly read, I mess up, but I take it seriously. I have learned some pretty hard stuff by ear, but at least reading parts leads to much better results for me than my ear alone.
Click to expand...
Hi! Just a suggestion. If you try to read take a look at classical double bass methods. Most of them have studies in all the keys and are a good way to learn how to read. In fact, not knowing the song really requires you to read not relying on your ear.

I've used and I'm using a method from the middle of nineteenth century written by the virtuoso Double Bassist Bottesini. You can find it here:
Link Removed
 
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#11
Dr. Cheese said:
I am trying to learn to truly read, I mess up, but I take it seriously. I have learned some pretty hard stuff by ear, but at least reading parts leads to much better results for me than my ear alone.
Click to expand...

Good for you. I’m a beginner, but this is my favorite baseline I’ve learned (although you’re right, I’m not sure I’ve mastered the subtlety). I can’t read it, although I’ve most certainly tried. I was more hoping to reverse that and learn to read it by noting what my fingers would do and then associate it back to what I see. Hasn’t really happened, though.
 
#12
JoshS said:
Good for you. I’m a beginner, but this is my favorite baseline I’ve learned (although you’re right, I’m not sure I’ve mastered the subtlety). I can’t read it, although I’ve most certainly tried. I was more hoping to reverse that and learn to read it by noting what my fingers would do and then associate it back to what I see. Hasn’t really happened, though.
Click to expand...

Get the book Soul Fingers, it has notation and tablature of Duck Dunn lines. It would be a big help for you.
 
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#14
if you are making a legitimate effort, this is the teacher being ineffective, not you...

edit - felt like elaborating..


teaching is about assessing current ability, finding the healthy amount of challenge - something the student cannot do today that is possible for them to do within a timeframe (lets say one week.), and evaluating how that went. zone of proximal development.

I have a masters degree in music education. I see a lot of teaching - some amazing, some horrific. the bad almost always comes from a poor assessment at the first step, misunderstanding either what a student is really capable of, or misunderstanding how many steps are involved in getting to a particular task with reasonable efficiency.
 
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#18
Ed Fuqua said:
!. if you're trying to learn to read, you should be reading through etudes etc. not "songs", particularly not pop songs that you're going to be playing along to what you hear in your head already. That's not reading.
2. you don't need a teacher to teach you how to read music
Click to expand...
Exactly right. Id stay away from material with tabs in them, key for learning to sight read is to work out your own fingering. Simandl book of exercises is an oldie but goodie and John Pattitucci wrote a similar book of studies. Bach cello suites (transposed for bass) the gold standard, and a lifetime of rewarding work.

Also, dr Cheese mentioned getting Duck's inflections right, and that's not the point of sight reading either - the point is to first play the part in time from start to finish from paper, which is difficult enough. Next is interpretation (making music out of it) , which raises the fantastic possibility to do your own- Duck already did his :)

Good luck and have fun!
 
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#19
teh-slb said:
I'm going to be that guy and disagree. A teacher who gets mad over their students not preparing for lessons is a good teacher.
Click to expand...
People who deal in fear and anger in their chosen profession need to find another profession.

If anger worked as a teaching method it would be supported by peer reviewed psychological studies. It's not.
 
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