I was just curious to know what students ask to learn most? Do they want to learn specific songs, learn slap, jazz soloing, etc.? Or do you disregard what they want and teach them what they need to know? Let's hear it.
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Teachers - What do students ask to learn most?
- Thread starter Lichtaffen
- Start date
I'm not a teacher per se. But if I were I'd drink Dos Equis... er... I'd combine what the student wants with what the student needs.
But back when I took lessons I asked my teacher to show me music theory & how to be able to improvise in key.
If I were to take lessons again it would be more theory - walking bass and jazz stuff - and probably songwriting 101.
But back when I took lessons I asked my teacher to show me music theory & how to be able to improvise in key.
If I were to take lessons again it would be more theory - walking bass and jazz stuff - and probably songwriting 101.
You are the teacher you should dictate where the student need to go !!!
But let's say you work on tapping or improvisation or whatever ... maybe back it up with a song so there is context and may make the thing easier to grasp.
But let's say you work on tapping or improvisation or whatever ... maybe back it up with a song so there is context and may make the thing easier to grasp.
Most common questions are about how long it takes to become good or master a technique. That is followed by the any shortcut or faster ways to learn it.
A teachers job will depend on the pool of players he has to work with, so you go with the flow and earn money, or you try and be to smart and have no students.
So you balance our need to earn with the need of students, some have low needs as they are in it for fun or are to lazy to learn, others will make the most of your time and teaching. So you those that pay the bills (low needs) position you to teach those that will benefit from your teaching (high needs) and along the way you try and encourage and show any low need players the benefits of learning......and so the cycle goes around.
A teachers job will depend on the pool of players he has to work with, so you go with the flow and earn money, or you try and be to smart and have no students.
So you balance our need to earn with the need of students, some have low needs as they are in it for fun or are to lazy to learn, others will make the most of your time and teaching. So you those that pay the bills (low needs) position you to teach those that will benefit from your teaching (high needs) and along the way you try and encourage and show any low need players the benefits of learning......and so the cycle goes around.
But if the student really doesn't know anything, how will they know where to go? After one has become an accomplished bassist, I would agree with you... but if a student who can't even play scales wants to learn slap, that should perhaps be saved as a reward for learning something more.....bassic...
Will I get laid, rich or famous first? How long will that take?
Whats the best bass for metal?
What's for lunch?
Whats the best bass for metal?
What's for lunch?
A lot of students want to know riffs/licks.
When you task them to learn the whole song enthusiasm starts to fade.
When you task them to learn the whole song enthusiasm starts to fade.
If the student doesn't know anything it is the teacher job to guide him/her. Simple as that. If he can't even play a scale, he has a lot of work to do before being able to slap.
SirMjac28
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion
Most common questions are about how long it takes to become good or master a technique. That is followed by the any shortcut or faster ways to learn it.
A teachers job will depend on the pool of players he has to work with, so you go with the flow and earn money, or you try and be to smart and have no students.
So you balance our need to earn with the need of students, some have low needs as they are in it for fun or are to lazy to learn, others will make the most of your time and teaching. So you those that pay the bills (low needs) position you to teach those that will benefit from your teaching (high needs) and along the way you try and encourage and show any low need players the benefits of learning......and so the cycle goes around.
I love your explanation but it also feeds my fear of going to a music teacher. I play for fun and fun only and I have zero interest in learning music theory and I would love to learn just how to slap or tap but I don't want some teacher looking down on me and considering me a "low needs" player and just a car payment so they don't put as much into my teaching as someone looking to major in Music in college.
Fair point, but look at the reality of your needs, "zero interest in theory", that alone means i would have to lead you by the hand and show and explain things, rather than write out a lesson for you to read and work on in your own time......so you in fact pay me to watch you learn.....you pay money for lessons you do not really need....so i will happily take your money because you seem to want to give it away, so if i do not take it you will give it to someone else.
So better in my pocket so it helps me earn money for my high need students.
No doubt later on i will repeat information we have already used, spend your money and time going over info you have already had, but do not realise, because you have no theory to back it up and see how all the previous lesson apply to what you are learning now.
You are low needs and that is a fact, you are a low maintainance player because of your attitude to learning, change that attitude and you will learn faster, better and save money because after a while you start to work things out for yourself, you make conections and see a bigger picture to ypur playing and music.
Only a bad teacher will look down on you, so avoid them because they are not truely teachers you will learn from.
Good teachers have honesty in their teachings and advice, sometimes it is blunt but it is always encouraging, and like i said if was working with you, you would come to see, hear and feel the benefits of music teaching rather than learning an instrument, because i would be looking to instill a sense of learning in you that would see you take an interst in all aspects of music and not have a zero interest in any part of it.
Look at it this way, if all you want to do is drive a car and have zero interest in the mechanics of it, then when it stops moving ypu are stuck, you have to pay others to fix what you may have been able to work out and fix yourself.....amd you have to believe that the work they done was
A/ needed to be done
B/ was done correctly
C/ you were not ripped off because you do not understand the mechanics of what the done.
Apply that to many things in life and you will find having an understanding that allows you to question, reason, and come to conclussions about things is a better than just being told "that's the way it is...take it or leave it.......but pay what you owe first"
No-one said life was fair, so try not to get caught up with the semantics of words, remember if i say to a student "you need to work harder", the serious ones take that as advice, others take it as criticism, so how can the same words mean such different things and illicet different attitude responces.....again the semantics of words, but the good students know how i mean it and it benefits them, the others just find excuses not to work harder because they see it the other way....they may even leave and go to a teacher that will just give them what they want.
This is the problem now, as Clef-de - fa point out, "how can the student be qualified to know what they need to learn"?
My answer is "if you let me teach you want you need to learn, then you will be free to learn what you want"
- Jan 12, 2011
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- 2,460
- Disclosures
- Artist, Trickfish Amplification Bartolini Emerging Artist, MTD Kingston Emerging Artist. Artist, Tsunami Cables
IMO most teachers lose their students because they spend too much time teaching theory and the intellectual side of music and spend too little time teaching a student how to play bass. Information without application is just that information. I'm prepping to give a slap bass clinic and I plan on using 'songs' as case studies in how to apply the techniques I will be teaching. When I started out my teacher spent hours with me in the Simandl books and Paul Hindemith and countless finger exercises. WE never covered a single song and how to apply what I was learning. Then one day I heard Larry Graham's Can You Handle It, and Hair. I dropped the teacher. A scale, a mode, an arpeggio, does not a bass player make. Its not what you say but how you say it. Teachers need to focus also on showing their students how to say it. I can spend hours pounding into you scales, modes, theory and not show you one day how to play the electric bass guitar. To me this is not teaching. Again this is just my opinion.
I agree 100%!
I could play bass pretty darn well before I knew much theory beyond your basic major and minor scales. Because of this, I could actually play in bands, and I was honestly having a lot of fun with the instrument just from learning songs that I liked. It wasn't until I hit a brick wall with my playing and saw my development grind to a halt that I thought to myself, "you know, learning some theory might actually help me when it comes to writing new lines, improvising, understanding song structure, and communicating my ideas to other, more experienced, musicians. I went into theory eager to learn, and I actually caught on to it quite quickly for someone who more or less taught themselves everything just from reading books and posts on TB.
IMHO, you need to create the desire to learn first. If you try to force it you'll only be met with resentment and (likely) abandonment of the instrument.
+1 you have it in hand and yes the need to learn as you go with application is how we all learn the practical use......and of course instil the desire to learn rather that of futility of dispair.
I am sitting in the sun learning a set of songs, 80% of the job is done and i have yet to pick up the bass because i can hear and understand what i am hearing on the practical use of my theory and experience as applied to the songs.
So that means i can do the gig with no real need to rehearse with the band before hand, so that saves them time and money, as well as myself, and we just get on with the job of playing.
The bass will come out for a practice of it in a few days to either confirm or deny what i have learned and finish the job 100%.
This is what artist, bands, sessions etc require from their players, minimum use of their time and money, and it allows me to make better use of mine....everyones a winner as they say.
I've had quite a few of my students ask me to teach them Motown songs because they've heard me play one on my touring gig with Janelle Monae. That's right up my street.
Excellent thread! I have not been able to get myself to take a lesson because I am aware of the type of student I would be......terrible. Fergie, your explanation of the types of students and how you approach each one is an eye opener.
I also agree with phillybass101. I know I would get completely bored and want to quit if I didn't have some sort of reference point to what it is I am learning. I can only retain info if I can tie it to something like, in this case, a song or type of music.
I took ONE guitar lesson a year ago. I took ONE drum lesson a year and a half ago. I'm afraid to attempt a bass lesson for fear of not making it past the first lesson. Maybe I should pay in advance for the first 8 or 10?
EDIT: Anyone give lessons on how to be a good student??
I also agree with phillybass101. I know I would get completely bored and want to quit if I didn't have some sort of reference point to what it is I am learning. I can only retain info if I can tie it to something like, in this case, a song or type of music.
I took ONE guitar lesson a year ago. I took ONE drum lesson a year and a half ago. I'm afraid to attempt a bass lesson for fear of not making it past the first lesson. Maybe I should pay in advance for the first 8 or 10?
EDIT: Anyone give lessons on how to be a good student??
- Jan 12, 2011
- 4,578
- 2,460
- Disclosures
- Artist, Trickfish Amplification Bartolini Emerging Artist, MTD Kingston Emerging Artist. Artist, Tsunami Cables
IMO the best players are the ones who could play already and then picked up the music knowledge. Big Ears already etc. The thing to note is that they already knew how to play bass. Jaco is a perfect example. So when a teacher gets a new totally raw student he/she has two concerns to address. Teachers have to realize at first that, that student came to them to learn how to play bass, not learn all that music crap LOL!!!!!
+1 you have it in hand and yes the need to learn as you go with application is how we all learn the practical use......and of course instil the desire to learn rather that of futility of dispair.
I am sitting in the sun learning a set of songs, 80% of the job is done and i have yet to pick up the bass because i can hear and understand what i am hearing on the practical use of my theory and experience as applied to the songs.
So that means i can do the gig with no real need to rehearse with the band before hand, so that saves them time and money, as well as myself, and we just get on with the job of playing.
The bass will come out for a practice of it in a few days to either confirm or deny what i have learned and finish the job 100%.
This is what artist, bands, sessions etc require from their players, minimum use of their time and money, and it allows me to make better use of mine....everyones a winner as they say.
Fergie, the level of expertise you describe is the Holy Grail of bass playing. My question for you and the teachers on the thread is, how to get there?
My case: demanding day job and bass-hating neighbor on the one hand, versus insightful teacher, pretty good ear for music, decent mind for theory, fair sight-reading skills and love of all things bass on the other. I listen to Motown and other more contemporary music, concentrating on the bass lines, a couple of hours a day.
I'm committed to become a really good bassist. Yet I probably won't live long enough to get the 10,000 hours of practice required to be a virtuoso. How would you prioritize the hours that are available?
Hopefully this is not a thread hijack, rather just a different way of asking the question.
Interesting points, but Jaco had numerous mental dis-orders that contributed to his approach and work ethic on playing bass, as well as having musical parents and formally being a drummer....all contributed to his skill sets, so I cannot see any connection to it just being raw talent...it was being organised a very select set of mental process.
As for learning to play the instrument, that is a single lesson if even that. My personal situation was I picked up a bass and had it down and playing gigs within a fortnight.
The fact I had classical training and theory behind me first meant I played music on it, as well as using scales triads arps. etc, to enhance my physical needs to play what I what I heard in my head.
As a rule the millions of students that pick up an instrument and just play it support the idea that having lesson to play the instrument is not really needed, but to play music to certain standard having music good relevant music lessons to guide you through it in your playing life will pay off in the end.
Technique only or playing lessons lead to ruts and the introduction of music based ideas get players out of them....every player that has ever came to me or talked about being in a rut, found their way out by learning something new musically to work on.
In the end there are so many levels of playing, as there is in learning, the player has to have the will to want to learn, that applies to any walk in life not just music, so maybe it has nothing to do with learning theory, maybe it is the individual teachers presentation of how theory is taught is the problem......not the theory itself
