Tech 21 Club

[Kro]

Every instrument is going to react differently with something like our SansAmps or a tube amp.

I'm just blown away that to my ear, wanting a similar amount of drive, my Precision with a "62" pickup needed so much less drive than my StingRay!

Does make me wonder what else might be going on there... I suspect that the 62 is a hot pickup, but I also wonder if it has to do with the increased dynamics of the passive bass... all very fascinating to me!

 

[Fuzzbass]

The Fender Roscoe Beck fiver I used to own had a pair of dual coil buckers. Each pickup had three-way selector switch for series, parallel, and single coil. As to be expected: series wiring provided a more P-bass like result (thicker/punchier mids) and hotter output -- while parallel had a more full-range tone (better highs and lows) and lower output than series. Single-coil was non-humbucking (except when the bass was used like a Jazz bass, both pickups switched to single-coil mode), and about the same output as parallel.

The above is generally true for humbucking pickups. The split-coil P-bass pickup is wired in series, the dual-coil Stingray pickup is wired in parallel (an exception: the SR5 had a series/parallel switch for its pickup). P vs SR is not an exact apple-to-apple comparison -- just sayin' that the tone result is predictable.

TL;DR: pickups make a huge difference.

 

[Kro]

The Fender Roscoe Beck fiver I used to own had a pair of dual coil buckers. Each pickup had three-way selector switch for series, parallel, and single coil. As to be expected: series wiring provided a more P-bass like result (thicker/punchier mids) and hotter output -- while parallel had a more full-range tone (better highs and lows) and lower output than series. Single-coil was non-humbucking (except when the bass was used like a Jazz bass, both pickups switched to single-coil mode), and about the same output as parallel.

The above is generally true for humbucking pickups. The split-coil P-bass pickup is wired in series, the dual-coil Stingray pickup is wired in parallel (an exception: the SR5 had a series/parallel switch for its pickup). P vs SR is not an exact apple-to-apple comparison -- just sayin' that the tone result is predictable.

TL;DR: pickups make a huge difference.

Thanks for that, makes sense when you put it that way (series vs. parallel - how I did run my SR5). This has been an eye-opening learning experience for me. My favorite kind!

 

[Fuzzbass]

Thanks for that, makes sense when you put it that way (series vs. parallel - how I did run my SR5). This has been an eye-opening learning experience for me. My favorite kind!

I'm pretty sure that the series/parallel switch in the SR5 performs some magic to keep output roughly equal for both modes. That was not true for the RB5: huge jump in volume when going from parallel to series. Of course that boost could either be a plus or a minus!

 

[Wissen]

It's a misconception that because the VT Bass DI has a "Drive" control, using it = distortion. It's cable of clean sounds by running lower Drive settings and or reducing the Blend. There is a difference between a tube emulated clean tone and the sound of your pickups being buffered with added EQ. You can bypass the SansAmp circuit completely if desired. Rogers pedal is a clean preamp with EQ. Great pedal but a completely different purpose. If that's what you're going for our Q\Strip would be a better choice.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd say stick with the Sadowsky if you're happy with it.

I absolutely understand that it can be run clean. And I do have a Q\Strip that I love like the child I do not yet have. SO, yeah...we're definitely on the same page here. Clean VTDI is redundant, so away it goes.

 

[Jim Carr]

I've owned just about every pedal they've ever made, I found the Bass Compactor one of the worst pedals (not just comps) I'd ever owned.

In your humble opinion? The compactor worked well for me. The compressor could create a cool sustain when needed, and as an external pre-amp, it did the job for me. Sorry it was not your thing.

 

[birminghambass]

In your humble opinion? The compactor worked well for me. The compressor could create a cool sustain when needed, and as an external pre-amp, it did the job for me. Sorry it was not your thing.

You don't have to be sorry, pretty sure I bought it from someone else.

 

[kringle77]

I continue to have a love affair with the oxford pedal, used in the high side of my dual amp rig. Also as the main componant of my di only rig and as a tone sweetener/tightener in a mono rig.

The newest version of the bddi is easily the best version. I continue to use the q-strip at every gig. Id love to see some kind of q-strip but, with tube amp simulation for character and grit. The 4 band eq with hp/lp filters is what a bassist really needs, get some tube od/compression in there and you have a serius tone machine. Maybe a character section and a q-strip section independently switcheable. Im tired and rambling but, wanted to put it out there.

 

[Kro]

I think I’m finally getting very close to dialing in my VTDI for my Precision. Goal is an organic amp-like tone, EQ’d to sit well in a rock mix, with just enough drive to slightly warm things up, provide a hint of natural compression, and introduce some harmonic content to help bass parts be audible on less hi-fi playback platforms.

This is where I left off. Forgive the playing, as this was one of a handful of down-and-dirty samples with different levels of drive and highs dialed in that I did rapid-fire in order to see how they translate to a few different playback systems.

I feel like I finally have drive tuned-in pretty well, but I’m debating as to whether it needs a little more EQ work… Decisions, decisions!

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[Al Kraft]

I think I’m finally getting very close to dialing in my VTDI for my Precision. Goal is an organic amp-like tone, EQ’d to sit well in a rock mix, with just enough drive to slightly warm things up, provide a hint of natural compression, and introduce some harmonic content to help bass parts be audible on less hi-fi playback platforms.

This is where I left off. Forgive the playing, as this was one of a handful of down-and-dirty samples with different levels of drive and highs dialed in that I did rapid-fire in order to see how they translate to a few different playback systems.

I feel like I finally have drive tuned-in pretty well, but I’m debating as to whether it needs a little more EQ work… Decisions, decisions!

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Obviously tone and feel are a matter of taste, but for my money I think it sounds right in the ballpark you're looking for. When you mentioned Precision bass I expected to hear a little more low end, but what you have there now really provides solid low mids, no mud, and a nice sealed cab kind of bottom roll-off to my ear. The top end isn't too bright and should provide good definition in a mix, and the mids seem real solid to get you slotted-in very nicely. If you're not 100% there, I'm pretty sure you couldn't be more than 10% off - I liked it!

 

[kringle77]

That is pretty much a classic p bass with a pick tone. Sounds good in a mix.

 

[Kro]

That is pretty much a classic p bass with a pick tone. Sounds good in a mix.

That's really the best I could hope for. Seems like at least my bass and pick are holding up to their end of the bargain!

Obviously tone and feel are a matter of taste, but for my money I think it sounds right in the ballpark you're looking for. When you mentioned Precision bass I expected to hear a little more low end, but what you have there now really provides solid low mids, no mud, and a nice sealed cab kind of bottom roll-off to my ear. The top end isn't too bright and should provide good definition in a mix, and the mids seem real solid to get you slotted-in very nicely. If you're not 100% there, I'm pretty sure you couldn't be more than 10% off - I liked it!

Appreciate that, makes me wonder if I might need a little bit more low end (and maybe a hint more highs). Still a little undecided, though could also very well just move forward as it is.

I will say this though, one of the things I really like about my VTDI is how touch sensitive it is. That sample earlier is what I was using to try and really dial-in drive to where I wanted it, so I purposefully picked a fairly aggressive piece, and then made sure to hit particularly hard on top of it. Not abnormally hard, but probably the most aggressive that I'd get in a live setting. If I pull back even just a bit, the tone smooths out accordingly.

The sample below is another quick and dirty recording I did as part of this tone-exploration process that uses all of the exact same settings across everything as the previous sample, but with a slightly less aggressive attack, and more overall dynamic variation. Obviously the fact that it's in a pre-pro mix (no, I didn't let guitar #1 use that noodling as his final solo) helps as well, but I think it's a particularly good example of how these VTs respond to the player.

Edit: what the hell, posted a longer clip:
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[Al Kraft]

Nice piece and nice playing Kro. I'm a finger style player almost exclusively and thought the bass sounded very smooth and articulate in that sample. The clip last night also sounded good to me too. I think it was my finger style tuned ear that caused me to remark about the original expectation that it might be more low bass oriented. However, the playing and tone was in no way disappointing!

For a person who enjoys the GK tone, you have a great touch for the more Ampeg/tube style voicing. I think the sample last night and today had plenty of high end to work for the SVT and 8X10/fridge style - those cabs rolled off steeply at around 5K IIRC. Sometimes those of us who enjoy that very full and open (sometimes slightly scooped) GK tone tend to forget that the older vintage style tube and sealed cab combinations were much more mid centered with some attenuation/roll off on either end.

That more mid-centric voicing is also what gave us that bass punch and of course a big 8X10 sealed cab punching hard at 80Hz will have a very full bass sound. Your recording is very convincing to me from a tone and style perspective and has a bit better clarity/fidelity than older recordings with a similar voicing would have. Nicely done!

 

[Kro]

Nice piece and nice playing Kro. I'm a finger style player almost exclusively and thought the bass sounded very smooth and articulate in that sample. The clip last night also sounded good to me too. I think it was my finger style tuned ear that caused me to remark about the original expectation that it might be more low bass oriented. However, the playing and tone was in no way disappointing!

For a person who enjoys the GK tone, you have a great touch for the more Ampeg/tube style voicing. I think the sample last night and today had plenty of high end to work for the SVT and 8X10/fridge style - those cabs rolled off steeply at around 5K IIRC. Sometimes those of us who enjoy that very full and open (sometimes slightly scooped) GK tone tend to forget that the older vintage style tube and sealed cab combinations were much more mid centered with some attenuation/roll off on either end.

That more mid-centric voicing is also what gave us that bass punch and of course a big 8X10 sealed cab punching hard at 80Hz will have a very full bass sound. Your recording is very convincing to me from a tone and style perspective and has a bit better clarity/fidelity than older recordings with a similar voicing would have. Nicely done!

Thanks for the kind words Al. Truth be told, I'm not a huge fan of doing this type of tone-work. I'd much rather be playing, but it is a necessary evil, especially now that my band does all it's own recording. I can't rely on the golden ears of an engineer or producer anymore to help me dial in the perfect recorded tone - and so I find myself looking to my VTDI for help and TB for feedback.

It's been a great learning experience for me, and one that has me focusing much more on functional, objective elements of tone, and I've found that my VTDI is a great partner for that. As much as I love the default GK tone for live work, in the recorded mixes I usually live in, it typically doesn't translate as well for me without significant tweaking or outside help. If only they'd come out with a SansAmp-style GK unit that mimics a full and mic'd up rig with all that that would entail... but I digress.

Who knows how my preferences and needs will change in the future, but right now that Ampegy-tube tone seems to get me the closest to how I want my bass to actually present itself in a mix.

Now if I could just get it to the point where I can stop tweaking and focus more on playing... I've pretty much been in this mode since acquiring my Precision about this time last month and I've been happily miserable since. I say this as I'm currently away from my computer, and itching to bump bass up a couple dB in the recording above to hear how it sounds vs. maybe needing to bump lows up a bit. The struggle is real.

 

[Kro]

I have a show tonight with no backline, so I get to use my full rig that includes my VTDI, 1001RB, and F115. I've already loaded up my cab, and since I've been goofing around with my rack so much lately, I wanted to make sure I had everything hooked up correctly via a quick signal test. While I had my rack cracked open, I ran a few sweeps just to see how my VTDI signal compares to that of the typical knobs-at-noon GK tone of my 1001RB-ii preamp.

I've done this before, so it isn't much of a surprise for me, but I figured I'd share in case others found it interesting.

FWIW this is the VTDI setting that I used for the recordings above, that I also plan to use for tonight's show, and for the foreseeable future as long as it doesn't sound terrible tonight going to FOH!

That setting is represented by the pink line below, with teal being my 1001RB-ii preamp with EQ (and boost) nooned in 4-string mode, and the orange line is the same in 5-string mode for comparison. All samples taken through the GK DI - set "pre" for the VTDI, and obviously "post" for the others:

I've made it known before that I'm perfectly happy to use scooped EQ settings when called for, and in this case, with my Precision and Chromes, I think it works alright.

 

[vvvmmm]

I bet that "pink" (looks purple, here) curve would sound great on "Love Rollercoaster".

 

[Rickter]

Thanks for all of the VT Bass info @Kro. Recently I've grown dissatisfied with my Alpha Omega Ultra and I have been seriously considering the VT Bass to replace it. Like you, I'd be running it prior to a 1001RB. I think you have just about talked me into the VT Bass.
That said, I have what is likely a crazy question.... I have long been torn between the VT Bass and the Q\strip. Has anyone here ever attempted to, or found the need to, run a VT Bass into a Q\Strip for additional tone shaping?

 

[kringle77]

Its a great option to run the qstrip in front or after for different effect. I run a qstrip before my oxford to shape the oxfords grit alittle.

 

[Kro]

That said, I have what is likely a crazy question.... I have long been torn between the VT Bass and the Q\strip. Has anyone here ever attempted to, or found the need to, run a VT Bass into a Q\Strip for additional tone shaping?

That's a not a crazy question at all. Even if you think about what they’re individually supposed to emulate, they seem like each would have its place: the VT is meant to be the amp, the cab, and the mic in the box, with a limited EQ section tacked on after the SansAmp portion. The Qstrip is a recording console in a box.

On paper, it seems like it would be nice to have a bit more HPF-type control for the VT, but in reality IME I’ve found that it isn’t really necessary for my current needs. Given my amp though, my first go-to if I wanted to shave off some low end would be setting the GK DI to post and punching the 4-string button. Just something to think about - the VT going into the GK preamp can also be a provide additional flexibility if needed.

 

[Rickter]

That's a not a crazy question at all. Even if you think about what they’re individually supposed to emulate, they seem like each would have its place: the VT is meant to be the amp, the cab, and the mic in the box, with a limited EQ section tacked on after the SansAmp portion. The Qstrip is a recording console in a box.

On paper, it seems like it would be nice to have a bit more HPF-type control for the VT, but in reality IME I’ve found that it isn’t really necessary for my current needs. Given my amp though, my first go-to if I wanted to shave off some low end would be setting the GK DI to post and punching the 4-string button. Just something to think about - the VT going into the GK preamp can also be a provide additional flexibility if needed.

That was my thinking as well, a mic'd SVT into a channel strip. Seemed to makes sense in my head.