Tech 21 Club

[syntap]

I think the YYZ still has issues, after about twenty minutes of playing last night I heard a pop through the amp and the output from the pedal went out again. This morning it worked fine. Maybe a power issue? I'll keep a fresh 9v in there while also plugged in to see if there's any improvement. Sounds great when it is working!

Yeah that Behringer cable tester really comes in handy... you can plug both ends in to see if it immediately can show a problem. But for those intermittent ones you can hit a button to reset a row of lights, and jiggle the cable around. If any intermittent breaks are detected while moving the cable you'll see those reset lights come on. There's six cable types it will test, and the $25 USD Amazon will charge as I look it up now is well worth having it in the gig bag. Once I took the time to test all my 1/4 cables... I think I tossed about a quarter of them because they wouldn't pass intermittent break testing.

 

[BrentSimons]

Two more recordings, in the mix this time. I'm done recording for the night, but I wonder if I should make a VT version with less drive to make it a bit more of an even playing field...

I do still like both, but perhaps the novelty of the BDDI is winning to my ears for this mix, even though the VT certainly is a bit more present in the mix, thanks at least in part to not having that mid notch of course.

BDDI Mix
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VTDI Mix
[This invalid link has been removed]

Hi @Kro
I likes em both! Very solid playing too!
I really need to pick up one of those boxes!
Stay healthy!
Brent

 

[tech21nyc]

I think the YYZ still has issues, after about twenty minutes of playing last night I heard a pop through the amp and the output from the pedal went out again. This morning it worked fine. Maybe a power issue? I'll keep a fresh 9v in there while also plugged in to see if there's any improvement. Sounds great when it is working!

Yeah that Behringer cable tester really comes in handy... you can plug both ends in to see if it immediately can show a problem. But for those intermittent ones you can hit a button to reset a row of lights, and jiggle the cable around. If any intermittent breaks are detected while moving the cable you'll see those reset lights come on. There's six cable types it will test, and the $25 USD Amazon will charge as I look it up now is well worth having it in the gig bag. Once I took the time to test all my 1/4 cables... I think I tossed about a quarter of them because they wouldn't pass intermittent break testing.

A cable tester in not the way to troubleshoot a pedal. Plus it looks like you are using XLR cables. The unit is designed to be used with 1/4" cables. You have written to our support department. Please contact us again and explain what your setup is.

 

[syntap]

A cable tester in not the way to troubleshoot a pedal. Plus it looks like you are using XLR cables. The unit is designed to be used with 1/4" cables. You have written to our support department. Please contact us again and explain what your setup is.

Thanks! Have done so.... for benefit of other readers, no XLR cables are in use here, setup (with 1/4's) is bass -> YYZ -> amp.

 

[tech21nyc]

Thanks! Have done so.... for benefit of other readers, no XLR cables are in use here, setup (with 1/4's) is bass -> YYZ -> amp.

It looked like two XLR cables laying next to the XLR jacks. After blowing up the photo I can see they are flat 1/4" cables. Will answer your questions through our support email.

 

[Wherestheone]

So I think my gear-rolling phase is perhaps getting me to "the "end"....

Small mention here of the recent addition of a Fairfield Barbershop in front of the VTBD.

This sets me up as follows:
BS----I think it's becoming an "always on" box. It just does a thing.

That feeds the VTBD, which feeds the VTBass500 through the 1/4" out with no presets selected. This is kinda my basic happy place.

VTBD Presets (so far) are as follows:
B3 (speaker sim off) used as a "stomp box" for extra dirt / OD with the VTBass500 (into either an SVT112AV or SVT15-e, or both..... )
B1/B2 (speaker sim off) used after the BS for happy place and dirtier tone when I'm feeding any other random amp's preamp in (eg rehearsal spaces that we occasionally make use of).
A1/A2 are set up for happy place and more dirt with ampless gigs where the DI feeds FOH.
A3.... nothing really at the moment....

I know....such a geek eh??? But....this allows me to focus on one single pedal board that "does it all".

Jury is still out on whether I decide to put a little compressor back into the mix for some gentle levelling.

Anyway----my goodness....what a lucky bunch of folks we are to have access to so much variety of gear!!

 

[GwenOnBass]

So I think my gear-rolling phase is perhaps getting me to "the "end"....

Small mention here of the recent addition of a Fairfield Barbershop in front of the VTBD.

This sets me up as follows:
BS----I think it's becoming an "always on" box. It just does a thing.

That feeds the VTBD, which feeds the VTBass500 through the 1/4" out with no presets selected. This is kinda my basic happy place.

VTBD Presets (so far) are as follows:
B3 (speaker sim off) used as a "stomp box" for extra dirt / OD with the VTBass500 (into either an SVT112AV or SVT15-e, or both..... )
B1/B2 (speaker sim off) used after the BS for happy place and dirtier tone when I'm feeding any other random amp's preamp in (eg rehearsal spaces that we occasionally make use of).
A1/A2 are set up for happy place and more dirt with ampless gigs where the DI feeds FOH.
A3.... nothing really at the moment....

I know....such a geek eh??? But....this allows me to focus on one single pedal board that "does it all".

Jury is still out on whether I decide to put a little compressor back into the mix for some gentle levelling.

Anyway----my goodness....what a lucky bunch of folks we are to have access to so much variety of gear!!
View attachment 4475757

Looks like our pedalboards are pretty close

​

those aren't actual settings on the VTBD

 

[Kro]

@tech21nyc I have a question I was hoping you might be able to help me out with.

I've been finding myself using my BDDI v1 a lot lately over my VTDI. For what I've been working on I've been making good use of the fact it essentially has a variable pre-drive highs-boost via the Presence knob versus the on/off bite switch on my VTDI. I note this as setup for what follows.

Given my preference for racked gear, I started thinking about how nice it might be to have a rack-mount version of my BDDI, and so I did the logical thing and picked up a brand new RBI!

After testing it out though, I was finding that it seemed to be voiced differently by default than my BDDI v1 – significantly so, which confused me as I thought they were essentially supposed to be more or less the same thing just in different formats. This prompted me to look under the hood a bit, and it seems like the thing I liked most about my BDDI – the ability to dial down that pre-drive highs-boost as needed is basically gone:

Presence at 0 (off) on the RBI is essentially the same as Presence at 12:00 for the BDDI. Presence at 12:00 on the RBI is an enormous highs boost.

There is no ability for me to dial in lower pre-drive highs on the RBI, akin to presence settings below 12:00 on the BDDI. Is this performing as anticipated, or did I receive a wonky unit?

I have to admit that lower drive settings (below noon) appear to be less usable as well, as it seems to saturate much sooner and less gracefully as well, though I'm willing to chalk some of that up to me not being fully familiar with dialing in the unit just yet.

Images for reference (and fun) below:

BDDI, EQ and Presence at noon:

RBI: EQ at Noon, Presence at 12:00 (pink), then at 0/off (yellow):

All together now:

 

[Al Kraft]

I wonder if the addition of the mid EQ filter in the circuitry (on the RBI vs the BDDI V1) and normal variation in the pots could explain what you're seeing/hearing Kro?

 

[Kro]

12db is not a tolerance issue.

Also the mids are post SansAmp circuit. With the EQ knobs (highs, mids, lows) at noon, the post SansAmp EQ is flat. I confirmed this with blend fully rolled off.

 

[Al Kraft]

12db is not a tolerance issue.

Also the mids are post SansAmp circuit. With the EQ knobs (highs, mids, lows) at noon, the post SansAmp EQ is flat. I confirmed this with blend fully rolled off.

Can't argue with that!

I was just grasping at straws and wondering if the redesigned circuit with the mid control necessitated (or simply came with) some other circuit changes that might have resulted in what you're seeing. Then if there was a 10% variation in pots along with a resigned circuit and that all stacked up in the same direction you might see something different than the BDDI, but 12 dB is a lot.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Presence at 0 (off) on the RBI is essentially the same as Presence at 12:00 for the BDDI. Presence at 12:00 on the RBI is an enormous highs boost.

Interesting. Presence functioned the same on my old original BDDI as it did on my RBI: boost only. Has that changed on the BDDI v2?

 

[Kro]

Interesting. Presence functioned the same on my old original BDDI as it did on my RBI: boost only. Has that changed on the BDDI v2?

It's relative. I think they're both "boost only", but the RBI's base/starting point to boost from is ~12dB higher than the BDDI's starting point.

There's just a much bigger highs peak baked into the RBI that presence boosts from.

Again, RBI with presence at 0 = BDDI with presence at 12:00. See yellow and green lines respectively above in the last graph I posted.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Currently not fully qualified as I lost stuff in the fire.
I'd used a SABBDI v.1 from the early 90s. As noted in the thread it enabled me to get a pretty consistent tone regardless of backline. Also as noted it can get a little wooly (oomph, though) on the bottom end.
I did a swap with a TB'er for a SAPBDDI (for a SA Tri-AC I wasn't using), and that was a different beast.
I kept the original on my board as an 'oomph' pedal when needed.
I later got an RPM rackmount, and that was as close as I've come to having 'my' tone.
Sadly all gone. Recently, though, I discovered that the ParaDriver is basically an RPM on the floor.
Will be getting one of those when I can.

 

[Kro]

@tech21nyc I have a question I was hoping you might be able to help me out with.

@tech21nyc I have a second RBI coming in today to test as well. I guess I'll figure out one way or another if this is a peculiarity of my specific unit or not.

What I've found, is that given I can't use lower presence settings like I can on my BDDI, I need to rely on the blend a bit more to tame things when needed. It also has the side effect of decreasing the limiting ceiling from the overall signal that the unit has when blend is on full SansAmp, but I guess that's the tradeoff I need to make if I decide to live with the RBI.

The joys of trying to get along with new gear with unexpected changes.

Stay tuned.

 

[Kro]

 

[paskisti]

When you increase blend to Sansamp side you may need to add some drive to increase overal signal level. Notice that both presence and drive affect only to Sansamp side, not to clean signal.

I like RBI a lot more than BDDI because it somehow sounds more high quality, less artificial and it has been my main tone source since 2005.

 

[tech21nyc]

@tech21nyc I have a question I was hoping you might be able to help me out with.

I've been finding myself using my BDDI v1 a lot lately over my VTDI. For what I've been working on I've been making good use of the fact it essentially has a variable pre-drive highs-boost via the Presence knob versus the on/off bite switch on my VTDI. I note this as setup for what follows.

Given my preference for racked gear, I started thinking about how nice it might be to have a rack-mount version of my BDDI, and so I did the logical thing and picked up a brand new RBI!

After testing it out though, I was finding that it seemed to be voiced differently by default than my BDDI v1 – significantly so, which confused me as I thought they were essentially supposed to be more or less the same thing just in different formats. This prompted me to look under the hood a bit, and it seems like the thing I liked most about my BDDI – the ability to dial down that pre-drive highs-boost as needed is basically gone:

Presence at 0 (off) on the RBI is essentially the same as Presence at 12:00 for the BDDI. Presence at 12:00 on the RBI is an enormous highs boost.

There is no ability for me to dial in lower pre-drive highs on the RBI, akin to presence settings below 12:00 on the BDDI. Is this performing as anticipated, or did I receive a wonky unit?

I have to admit that lower drive settings (below noon) appear to be less usable as well, as it seems to saturate much sooner and less gracefully as well, though I'm willing to chalk some of that up to me not being fully familiar with dialing in the unit just yet.

Images for reference (and fun) below:

BDDI, EQ and Presence at noon:
View attachment 4656274

RBI: EQ at Noon, Presence at 12:00 (pink), then at 0/off (yellow):
View attachment 4656275

All together now:
View attachment 4656273

The RBI and Bass Driver DI (though somewhat similar) are two different designs and products. The EQ's operate differently, the RBI runs internally at higher voltage and has more headroom. You might be better off sticking with the Bass Driver DI since it is already working for you. Maybe check out the GED-2112 if you want the rack format and more midrange control.

 

[FJB]

Tech 21 Sansamp GED 2112 question;

I have following rig:

amp - Hartke LH1000
cabinets - Hartke 2x HD410s 1000w @ 8ohms

What is optimum set up (Hartke amp to GED2112 and GED2112 output to FOH PA) for integration of GED 2112 in signal chain for use in live band scenario with FOH PA receiving ouput signal from GED2112 via DI (ie not mic to cabinets).

 

[tech21nyc]

Tech 21 Sansamp GED 2112 question;

I have following rig:

amp - Hartke LH1000
cabinets - Hartke 2x HD410s 1000w @ 8ohms

What is optimum set up (Hartke amp to GED2112 and GED2112 output to FOH PA) for integration of GED 2112 in signal chain for use in live band scenario with FOH PA receiving ouput signal from GED2112 via DI (ie not mic to cabinets).

There are a couple of options. It's always a good idea to experiment and find out what works best for your situation.

Plug into the GED-2112 and send the 1/4" output to your amp's effects return and the XLR output to the FOH. (It's best to have the unit configured for combined channel operation for this method.) You can also plug the GED-2112 into your amp's front end but it will work best if you set your amp for a neutral tonal setting.

If you are happy with your amp, plug into the GED-2112 first and send the uneffected 1/4" output into your amp and send the XLR output of the GED-2112 to the PA. In this configuration you can use the dual mono or combined channel mode. With this method you are using your amp as you normally would and the GED-2112 is being used as an independent DI sound.