Tech 21 VT Bass 1969 head!

[12bass]

For the most part, this has very little to do with how much power the amp has, and more to do with what type of pot was used for the master volume. I hear this a lot on TB where people talk about the amp being SO loud "because I was rattling the walls with the volume on 3." More than likely, it's not the power section, it's the fact that they are using a linear pot for the master volume.

If you use a linear pot, the volume will increase dramatically in the first portion of the pots rotation, and less dramatically as the volume knob goes higher. A log (logarithmic) taper pot is just the opposite and will give you very little output in the the first half of the pot's rotation and an increasing amount as the volume knob get's closer to max. A log taper pot is supposed to more closely resemble how our ears perceive volume. It's a common practice for amps to use a linear pot to make it seem like the amp has tons of power. From your description, it sounds like your amp uses a log taper pot. It might only be putting out 10% to 20% of the amps potential volume with the master volume up 50%. What's important is the actual output volume of the amp and not the position of the volume knob.

To add:

My Eden WT-500 came with a C-taper pot, which is reverse or anti-logarithmic. This makes for an even greater surge of volume in the first 1/3 of rotation than a linear volume control. I suspect that the rest of the WT-series are fitted similarly. I've since changed to a normal logarithmic taper, though I think that linear might be a good compromise, as I'm finding the volume increase a little slow until 1/2 rotation.

 

[GrowlerBox]

For the record, I put him on the spot to call him out on his mush-mouthed half-lies and for insulting our intelligence. The wattage was just a minor point for me.

Oh. OK, so I guess no need to be defensive, then.

You have a point, though. I may be misinterpreting what I see as a positive trend on TB, which is that the fanboy gushings are becoming increasingly tempered by demands for more actual information concerning the gear we love and want to love, and by less tolerance for hyped marketing bollocks. I hope we're moving past the point where the manufacturers of this stuff have to pretend it can do everything for everybody, and admit that design decisions are made with particular goals in mind, that inevitably compromises are made, and trust that the audience here is sufficiently sophisticated to cope with and even appreciate candour.

I guess I'm up to 4 cents now.

 

[allexcosta]

Uh then why are you worried about a 300 watt head? Shouldn't you be lookin' at the 3000 or 30000 watt model!

I'm not worried about a 300W head. I'm worried about reading that those who claim to need more than 300W SS don't have a clue...
I have a 700W SS amp and it does it for me, but 300W SS does not.

Some people just think they've seen everything and know it all when it's clearly not the case...

 

[lawrence2]

Hi!
I am sorry for talking about direct subject ... but, cause I read some thing about tech 21, you guys have experience, I am wondering if any of you have also heard or used "Cabinet Tech 21 B 410" ?? If you did:
- What is the sound and quality of it?
- To which cabinet (more used) can be compared?
- Combination with KG 700 rb; would it sound good; low middle, midle - finger style?

If there is any opinion or advise, I will be greatfull.

 

[aborgman]

Xls1500=$400

$340 is what I paid for the one I bought a month ago for our PA.

Vt bass=$150
remember you need two vt pedals

VT Deluxe (3 channels) - $270

plus the over priced cables(this is talk bass) so your at around $750 and I don't think the street price on the 1969 is confirmed yet?

3' Speakon cable - $15

Already have hundreds of 1/4" instrument cables.

Total ~= $625.

Half the weight. 3x the power.

It'd have to come in under $500 to be competitive.

 

[CharlieC]

I think I somehow side-slipped out of TalkBass and into TalkBizarro. Someone mentioned earlier about the Mardi Gras vibe over on the Streamliner threads, and I think the same could be said of the Tone Hammer 500 threads (the latter seems to me to be the more direct competitor, given that it's also based on a pedal pre-amp).

It's hard to think that the differing tones between the threads doesn't have something to do with the different approaches taken by the developers/vendors of these products. The Genz Benz and Aguilar guys always seem very approachable and open about their stuff, happy to take a bit of ribbing and generally join in the general bonhomie, whereas the Tech21 representative always seems to be somewhat on the defensive, slightly condescending, and sometimes downright irritable. I'm sure he's a terrific guy in person, and their gear is highly regarded, no doubt rightly so.

Anyhoo, merely an observation; I'm not in the market for one of these and don't "have a dog in the fight", as that rather revolting phrase goes. Carry on: it's been an enjoyable if somewhat puzzling read.

I think some people are really diggin' my Mardi Gras analogy about the Streamliner thread. Thanks!

Fat Tuesday calls for fat bass tone and my less-than-fat wallet is sure being tempted over there on "Bourbon Street"

On the second topic, does anyone know if that really is Andrew B. talking to us behind Tech21NYC account or not?

Cheers!

 

[CharlieC]

$340 is what I paid for the one I bought a month ago for our PA.



VT Deluxe (3 channels) - $270



3' Speakon cable - $15

Already have hundreds of 1/4" instrument cables.

Total ~= $625.

Half the weight. 3x the power.

It'd have to come in under $500 to be competitive.

The VT Bass 1969 has no Speakons, it's old-school 1/4"

So there's another $10 saved!

 

[bongomania]

because they called it a "rocket engine of a power section" and used the terms "digital" and "analog" to refer to smps and iron-coil transformer.

Do I really have to explain myself again? My issue was not with whether he called SMPS "digital", or regular power "analog", it's that he was using those terms as the basis for a more misleading and untruthful purpose. Or maybe more charitably, Tech21's marketing department put him in that position.

A large percentage of "analog" solid state amps, whether bass-specific or PA, contain limiters, for the exact same reason that the digital ones do: because they sound terrible when driven into clipping. Not all do, but many or even most do. So Tech21 needs to distinguish their amp from other analog amps, not from "digital".

And his example with the two powered speakers was utterly bogus. Either he was misled himself, or he didn't care that his example was bogus.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

jmatt, if you need more wattage, then there are plenty of amps out there you can get. rather than complain and gnash teeth about this amp not having more than 300w, i think people's time would be better spent just moving on instead of trying so hard to wish this amp into more wattage and annoyingly and bitterly complaining in such an undignified manner. not every amp is made for everyone. seriously, time to let it go. love the vt but not interested in this amp, but i'll be damned if i'm going to cry about it all over the place. seriously, i think some folks need to go wash their va-jay-jays

growler, our tech 21 rep here is normally very nice and helpful. he was put on the spot by the people who have been bitterly complaining in such an undignified manner.

But, But, But!!!


Yeah, I know you're right. It's stupid to get worked up over something like this - but I still can't understand why Tech21 would do this from a business perspective. I'll leave it at that

 

[Rockit]

I already own the RBI preamp which I absolutely love so I am a fan of Tech 21 products. I'd love to see the VT Bass as a rackmount preamp at some point. I run my RBI in a rack with a 1000 watt power amp bridged mono and I get props @ every gig I play because of the sound. I don't use every watt of that amp because quite frankly I play a lot of small clubs but there is something about having that extra power. I use a 500 watt 112 and 600 watt 4x6 cab with that set up and I fill up every room I play with sound and I believe it's due to the headroom I have. My wife even comments on how good my bass sounds when she comes to a gig. I believe 300 watts would be plenty of power for most of the gigs I do because both of my guitar players are using 50 watt tube amps and my band plays loud, Punk influenced Hard Rock. I just like knowing that even though I don't need all the power in my rig it's good to have it on tap. I'd be interested to hear reviews for TBer's who have used or bought the VT Bass 1969.

 

[FronTowardEnemy]

Hi!
I am sorry for talking about direct subject ... but, cause I read some thing about tech 21, you guys have experience, I am wondering if any of you have also heard or used "Cabinet Tech 21 B 410" ?? If you did:
- What is the sound and quality of it?
- To which cabinet (more used) can be compared?
- Combination with KG 700 rb; would it sound good; low middle, midle - finger style?

If there is any opinion or advise, I will be greatfull.

I own and gig it regularly with my LM300 head. I would have to say it best compares to the sound of my old SVT 3 Pro with my old Ampeg B410. I play finger style 80% and pick 20%. It really sounds great with a pick. The cab is 8 ohms, heavy, built very well and has custom Eminence speakers that really project the highs to cut through the mix. The lows are smooth and free of mud. This is one cab I have had that I never heard make a farting noise, ever! It doesn't have a tweeter, and the cab is the best I have heard with distortion. I have owned\own Hartke, Crate, Ampeg, Avatar, GK, SWR and Tech 21 cabs. I dont like tweeters because I run distortion and that is the main reason I gave up on these other cabs. I think your GK would sound really good through it. Really you need to try before you buy. Hope that helps.

BTW...I try to get a tone that Justin Chancellor of Tool gets with his rig, but for me without the Wal, GK and Mesa's. This rig is the closest I have come to getting that tone. If you don't like his tone then this cab may not be for you.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

+1 X infinity. I will also add that I use the same type of rig in smaller venues- bars that fit less than 80 people standing up to underground DIY basement shows.

I have a hard time not believing any of the following from the rest of the keyboard commandos complaining about using 200-300 watts of SS power isn't "enough" for them.

1. Your cab is super inefficient.
2. You don't play out.
3. If you do actually play, you haven't the slightest clue what an effective live bass tone/volume/eq should sound like. Inexperience?

Below is one of the largest indoor stages I've played, Ramshead Live in Baltimore, MD. That's me, with a whopping 250watts at 8ohms thru a friggin' Hartke 410 behind me out of the picture. I've played the place several times and never needed myself in my monitor. The drummer usually asked for a tiny bit of bass in the drum riser monitor but up front it was just vocals and guitar.

In any gig like this, the cab volumes never go much past rehearsal space levels. If you're playing a smaller venue that isnt going to run your bass DI to FOH, the PA is only going to be but so loud anyway so there's no reason to try and bury it with 4,000w of power.

Well from your awesome action shot (nice jump) I can see that at least one guitarist is only using a Marshall 2x12 combo. The most recent band I was in we had 3 100 watt half stacks on 4x12 cabs. Thats a lot of speaker to compete with on a mere 300 SS watt head. If I was looking for a ss head I wouldnt settle for less than 5-600 watts, and would rather err on the side of overpowering than be caught lacking.

Not all of us that think 300watts is meek want 2000 watt heads. Just 600 or 800 would be more like it.

 

[andrew]

I already own the RBI preamp which I absolutely love so I am a fan of Tech 21 products. I'd love to see the VT Bass as a rackmount preamp at some point. I run my RBI in a rack with a 1000 watt power amp bridged mono

That's what I do too, when I want the Sansamp tone, I run an RBI and RPM pre with my Aguilar DB750.

The Landmarkgular 750 is my favorite Tech 21 amp.

Killer combination.

 

[andrew]

BTW...I try to get a tone that Justin Chancellor of Tool gets with his rig, but for me without the Wal, GK and Mesa's. This rig is the closest I have come to getting that tone. If you don't like his tone then this cab may not be for you.

Without the aid of multiple pedals, this amp can get closer to the Tool sound than any other standalone head I've tried.

 

[Rockit]

That's what I do too, when I want the Sansamp tone, I run an RBI and RPM pre with my Aguilar DB750.

The Landmarkgular 750 is my favorite Tech 21 amp.

Killer combination.

I run a Stewart World 1.2 with my RBI. The rack I keep them in with my Furman power strip weighs more than the actual components. I'm looking at a new Crown XLS 1000 so I can go with a much shallower rack.

 

[JimmyM]

But, But, But!!!


Yeah, I know you're right. It's stupid to get worked up over something like this - but I still can't understand why Tech21 would do this from a business perspective. I'll leave it at that

well, they've been in business over 20 years with no help from us secretly, i do sort of understand the frustration, but the only thing that will change it is voting with your dollars.

 

[christw]

well, they've been in business over 20 years with no help from us secretly, i do sort of understand the frustration, but the only thing that will change it is voting with your dollars.

I'm going to vote for the Streamliner!

 

[lawrence2]

FronTowardEnemy

Hey, thank you very much for some advise about Tech 21 Cabinet.
You were also talking about tool bass player, I do not like sound of bass there so much (I like the bend better ); but what I think it is more tool sound from amp, not the cab; cause I have sansamp Tech 21 - yes, agree, can get totally tool bass sound.
I have tried the Tech 21 B410 todaj, with my GK 700 rb head (Bass: Warwick corvette) - I was very suprises, very impresed . I like it so much. Ofcourse with one cab there is not a perfecet low end, but mids are perfect and highs also (I like it with no tweeter); usually they sound a little "harsh" for me, and yeah, no talking about distortion on it. I have tried at the same time Ampeg classic 410 - ok, more low end (it is also a bigger box),nice mids and highs... almost perfect; but a little to soft for me; Tech 21 is realy TIGHT and PUNCHY , "in your face"... and I love this, and I could allready hear, that I will be heard in a bend (but, I will tell you later that, I hope it is true and also the most important); playing hard rock to funk (and in the funk I also like that mids that are a bassline. The most I play- fingerstyle (punchy tone), some picks (this cab is perfect for pic) and some slap and pops - very nice (without tweeter, no need it at all). After I tried hartke (aluminium) and some other more "modern" with tweeter cabinet - not good for me, low end and highs, nothing in beetwen.
And I am glad to hear, that it is not farting - cause that is my worry, cause It will be only one for a while and it is "only" 400watts; and we are loud on stage.

This pack with one more 4x10 tech cab or 1x15 -
all you need for punch in your face

 

[1n3]

My point is this - Why would Tech21 make a 300w amp when they can easily make a more powerful one that would be much more inclusive for a number of bassists who need that little extra headroom? It's not like adding it would stop people who don't need it from buying the amp - but by keeping it as is they ARE possibly excluding potential customers.

I don't use Tech21 products, but I'm puzzled by some of this critique. I don't see a mystery here. Per their claims, the power section of that amp is designed to behave more like a tube amp when pushed. GK makes similar claims, and some players choose the 700RB over the 1001RB because they want to push the power amp at a lower volume. Since the VT Bass 1969 head is targeted at SVT users, and the SVT is a 300 watt amp, their intent seems clear enough to me.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their design decisions, just that I find them understandable. Also not commenting on their marketing prose .

 

[rpsands]

Consider me to be voting with my wallet I'll stick with my 7 channel VT deluxe -> whatever amp.

Btw, Bongo can do plenty more than vote with his wallet; he can vote with other people's wallets.