The 2008 Stanley Cup Playoff Thread

[marcray]

Well, youn'z make some pretty convincing arguments for the Red Wings. There were also some convincing arguments for the Rangers and Flyers, although not as convincing as these are. The Red Wings are a great team, no doubt. This will definitely be a challenge unlike any other so far this season for the Pens.

I will say though that the comments about Fleury being weak is ridiculous. He has performed very well at home and on the road all playoffs. The Flyers came after him just like the Rangers did. He withstood the barrages, and is playing some great hockey right now. I know you don't like the Pens, so I'll take your comments with that in mind.

The Rangers and Flyers both beat up on Staal, Hossa, Sykora, and Dupuis, and look what that got them...nothing. The Flyers shut down Malkin, and they got them the same thing....nothing. Shutting down Sid will also get you a win in the series, and not much else. Keep in mind, these are not "ifs" I am speaking in. My thoughts are based on what has actually happened so far in the 2008 playoffs.

-Mike

Comparing the Rangers and Flyers with the Red Wings is tough... The Wings finished with a 54-24-7 record on the season, and have been in the PO's forever. On the other side, Flyers finished last in the East last year, and grasped for a PO spot this year. And Rangers have made the PO's for only the 3rd time in a decade, have a very young D, with absolutely no toughness, and have absolutely no power play... you could say both teams are "developing", not much in comparison to the Wings. Fleury is riding momentum, he's not exactly bad, but he's not great either. On the other hand, I wouldn't describe Ozzie as elite either, but he's cool as ice. Biggest difference is that if Wings define pace, you will now be playing Western Conference hockey, which is, erm, different. Being young, Pens may be able to adapt, otherwise, well, we'll see. Pens have surprised me.

For sure, it will be great hockey.

For the record, I like the Pens, love Mario, and have respect for the org. I don't like Crosby. He's a good player, you have to respect his talent, but if hockey were music, he would be Justin Timberlake.

 

[Andrew Jones]

I don't like Crosby. He's a good player, you have to respect his talent, but if hockey were music, he would be Justin Timberlake.

While I don't think Timberlake has that level of talent.


That was Funny ****


Aj



3rd and 4th line and Defence gives the nod to the wings IMHO.Home Ice as well.


Could be a epic series, Lets hope for one.



Aj

 

[burk48237]

Gary Bettman is still an Arse. The Schedules were released today. and not only are the Wings and Pistons playing on all the same nights, but the Home games are the same night! I don't own a split screen TV, what a pain!

Not only that he's going to try to compete with ABC with Versus on the same night in the same town for the same sports fans. A ratings debacle guaranteed.

 

[JimK]

Well said. The Rangers and Flyers are nowhere near the team the Wings are. Period.

I'll second that. Philly was one of the worst (if not the worst) teams in the NHL last season.

However, both the Rangers and Flyers were bringing barrages of much lower caliber than the Wings are.

Agree again. As a Philly fan, the only 'barrage' I saw came in the 1st period of Game 4. The PP was anemic.
Whatever happens, the young Pens should be a force for awhile.

 

[marcray]

Marcray, from my perspective, I'm not so much worried about "beating up" the Pens defense. I do think the wings need to finish their hits when they can, but that's just good hockey.They haven't had to contend with depth like the wings have. Lidstrom and Rafalski will handle the "stars", Stuart and Kronwall will get their hits when presented to them. If the Pens try to retaliate, quite a few of the Wings have shown an ability to avoid the brunt of it. The Wings are very familiar with Dupuis from his tenure in Minnesota.

I completely agree that the Pens are weakest in their end, and said as much Your point about the wings being dominant if they're allowed to dictate the pace is dead on - the playoffs thus far have shown that. I also think you've got Fleury pegged perfectly. I saw quite a bit of him when he was playing in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (I live about 30 miles from the arena, and the same distance from the B-Sens arena). I've got a feeling we'll know about the officiating "directives" the first time Crosby skates near Kronwall with his head down.

It's gonna be fun to watch... I'm not real familiar with Wings defensive corps, obviously Lidstrom, Rafalski, Richards, Chelios, are familiar, but a lot of Wings faces are unfamiliar to me. But Wings hockey remains, no matter who the personal.

Rangers got caught cheating by the Pens. We go up in the first game, then give it away by walking away from our game and making fundamental errors. Now we're a game back and Pens start to dictate pace and the way the game is played. We played desperate in game 4, without sacrificing our game and get a shut out. But damage was done. Henrik played atrocious too, hasn't been good all year.

Flyers I thought didn't stand a chance. Sure they have some punishing defensemen, but gee wizz, these Pens forwards aren't small guys, they're able to withstand some heat.

I guess what I feel is key, is that teams have come in with the mindset of "how do we shut them down, take them off they're game, etc etc"... that is wrong. You must play your game, let them worry about how to shut you down, and if anyone has the roster and the experience to do it, it's the Wings.

Great thing about this series, is that it truly is the best in the East VS, the best in the West. And stay out of it Bettman. The boy is big enough to fight for himself.

 

[Bad Brains]

I am going to summarize every Bad Brain's posts regarding hockey in this one. This is service i provide for BB for free to save him time and effort. From now on all he needs to-do is link this post in his hockey post with out saying any extra words.

On to summarization: "15 years ago hockey was so much better then now, even though i was like 4 at time, it was sooo much better. Hockey today sucks, 15 years ago it was awesome. Now: sucks, 15 years ago: GREAT! I hate hockey! Hockey was ruined for me 15 years ago, because it was great then, but now... sucks!"


You're welcome buddy, i am here to please.

Hey, it's true. When medicore teams in tropical climates named after Disney movies start winning cups, you know the NHL is in the toiliot.

 

[rjny36]

It's gonna be fun to watch... I'm not real familiar with Wings defensive corps, obviously Lidstrom, Rafalski, Richards, Chelios, are familiar...

Who's Richards? The Detroit defense corps. is Lidstrom/Rafalski, Kronwall/Stuart, Chelios/Lebda, and Lilja is usually scratched... there's some guys in the minors that have played at different times this season, such as Meech and Ericsson, and Quincey was a part of last year's playoffs, but there's no Richards I'm aware of.

 

[MJ5150]

I guess what I feel is key, is that teams have come in with the mindset of "how do we shut them down, take them off they're game, etc etc"... that is wrong. You must play your game, let them worry about how to shut you down....

OK, I must be learning something here. I mentioned this point in the Flyers series, and in the Rangers series. Both teams got caught up in trying to intimidate the Pens and take them out of their game. Very cool that marcray is mentioning something I have. Very cool!

So help me with this hockey guys.....I think the Pens have an advantage in that they have scorers all the way down to their third line. Jordan Staal could probably play on the second line for quite a few teams, and maybe even the first line on others. If he keeps developing, he will be a first line player soon enough. For this series, I think he is going to be a major factor.

Do the Red Wings have equal depth on all their lines? Do they have young talent on their third line that can skate and score with the Pens third line? By the way, is their a fourth line?

-Mike

 

[Andrew Jones]

if the Pens have any advantage in offensive lines it's that the have 2 first lines. neither are a good a Detroit's first line so you could say their second line is better than Detroit's.



First line, Detroit
Second line, Pens
Third line, Detroit
Fourth line, Detroit
Defense, Detroit
Goal,even
Coaching,Detroit
Home Ice,Detroit


Aj


The Pen have to get one out out of the first two in Detroit, if not.......

 

[rjny36]

Detroit's big line is Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom. They're top-tier players like your Crosbys and Malkins.

If Franzen comes back from injury, the second line will probably be Filpulla, Franzen, and Samuelsson. Franzen was on a serious tear through the end of the regular season and into the playoffs. He's still the leading playoff goal-scorer, even after missing the last 5 games. Filpulla can also put the puck in the net, but he's more of a pass now/shoot later kind of guy. Some Wings fans refer to Samuelsson as "William Tell," in that he has probably the worst accuracy in the history of hockey. He frustrates pretty much every Wings fan. I have also heard him referred to as the "Shin-Gaurd Assasin," and the "Logo Hunter." Keep an ear out for the phrase, "Samuelsson shoots! And it's blocked!" You'll hear that a lot.

After that, you get Hudler, Cleary, and Draper on one line, usually. Hudler's a small guy, but he's fiesty and can score the occasional goal. Huds usually pots big ones that change the momentum for some reason. Cleary used to be really dangerous, but he's been a few steps slow on the scoring front ever since he went down with a broken jaw and missed a lot of the season. (By the way, it was a Samuelsson slapshot that hit Cleary in the face, and broke his jaw! -- See, I told you!) Draper probably won't score any goals (though he did net one off his chin in Game 6 against Dallas!), but he's an absolutely dominant faceoff man. I think he won 17 of 19 faceoffs in Game 5.

The Fourth Line is usually Drake, McCarty, and Maltby. Not much of a scoring threat here, but keep your head up when Drake's on the ice!

 

[rjny36]

If Franzen is out, Helm usually is placed on the 4th line. Helm is a young kid... pretty fast, creates a lot of chances. Hasn't scored a lot, but he's one of those guys that could come on at any time.

Detroit doesn't dress much in the way of fighters. Downey handled a lot of that during the regular season, and did his role really well, but let's just say his ability to play actual hockey is negligible. Drake will fight. Lilja will fight if necessary, but I don't really see any of these guys wanting to tangle with Laraque.

One of the things that hasn't been talked about a lot is the faceoffs, though. Detroit is tops in that department in both the regular season, and in the playoffs. Detroit won 71% of the faceoffs in Game 2 against Dallas, up from 64% in Game 1! Pittsburgh was the worst in the league in that, if I recall correctly, during the regular season. Detroit doesn't give up the puck too easily once it has posession, so this could be a key factor, as well.

 

[rjny36]

Breakdown of top goal scorers between Det/Pitt:

Franzen (12) - including two hat tricks in the 4 game series against Col!
Zetterberg (11) - including two short-handed goals
Datsyuk (9) - including one hat trick against Dallas
Hudler (4) - tied with Crosby
Holmstrom/Filppula/Draper (3)

Hossa/Malkin (9)
Malone/Staal (6)
Sykora (5)
Crosby (4)
Talbot/Dupuis/Ruutu/Roberts (2)

[Keep in mind that this view is slanted in Detroit's favor, as Detroit played more games than Pittsburgh did.]

 

[rjny36]

I admittedly know much less about the Pens, though. I've only seen a few of their games in the playoffs, and one or two in the regular season. Can somebody do an in-depth breakdown for them?

It'd be great to get an "insider's" knowledge (primer) of them!

 

[mobax]

Wings

 

[peaveyuser]

Nice to know real team with a loyal fanbase will win this year, non of those southern based teams who's fans only watch if they are winning.

Argue with me remember Carolina anyone?

 

[marcray]

Who's Richards? The Detroit defense corps. is Lidstrom/Rafalski, Kronwall/Stuart, Chelios/Lebda, and Lilja is usually scratched... there's some guys in the minors that have played at different times this season, such as Meech and Ericsson, and Quincey was a part of last year's playoffs, but there's no Richards I'm aware of.

duh me... I was watching highlites on NHL.com from last series and Brad Richards was in my head... remembering why was because I wasn't even aware he was a Dallas Star until the Stars/Wings series. I just think of him as a Bolt...

 

[marcray]

I admittedly know much less about the Pens, though. I've only seen a few of their games in the playoffs, and one or two in the regular season. Can somebody do an in-depth breakdown for them?

It'd be great to get an "insider's" knowledge (primer) of them!

I can give you an opponents view... I think I've done a what would I do, previously... Pens first two lines, Malone, Malkin, Sykora / Dupuis, Crosby, Hossa. These lines are interchangeable in some ways because they change fast, many times you'll see big line interaction, they're young, so no one gets tired, except maybe Sykora who's the first one to jump off. The big key to their success is that they don't hold on to the puck more than a second, second and a half. They don't circle down low, they primarily pass back to the point and with Gonchar, Gill, Whitney, Orpik, Letang, Whitney, all with capable shots and passing ability, with good reason.

Their creativity comes from them just sniffing the net. If there is only a 20% chance of getting a puck to the net, they still take that chance. Still using quick passes. It sometimes takes a d by surprise, and you can bet that the forward taking the chance has support and that support is coming fast, so if D man makes a half hearted clearance, someone will be there to collect (see OT goal VS Rangers in Game 5 of that series).

Those first two lines can all score, all have good shots. If there are slow players on those lines, it's Dupuis and Sykora, which means no one is slow. Malkin has become somewhat of a give away threat recently, especially if he's stood up by a long stick carrying d at the blue line. He also takes chances with cross ice passes. Infact the Pens do this often, but it's hard to read and intercept because that decision to pass is made so quickly.

3rd line, Ruutu, J Staal, Kennedy. Ruutu can play, keep your head up, trying to be Esa Tikkanen, a big hero of his, so he's more interested in being a pest. Staal is a Staal, so he's great. Finds space, able to skate the puck in, not quite as dynamic as his older brother he more reminds me of Scott Gomez, also has a decent shot. Tyler Kennedy has been quiet in the PO's.

4th, Adam Hall, ex-Ranger, not much threat their, big guy, but doesn't really know how to use it yet, Talbot and Laraque. Love George. The thing with the Pens 4th line is you think you have a moment to relax, it's the 4th line, but they support really well, bang bodies and keep your heart rate up. No lull in pressure their.

The Pens give you a lot to think about. But, I think therein lies the key. Play the game you want to and you'll beat them. Rangers were 5-3 on the Pens in regular season because we stuck to our team plan and dictated pace and flow at home. Remember how to beat defensive trap minded teams like the Devils, Colorado and Carolina played the Devs game? It frustrated them and they started making the mistakes that they were waiting for Colorado to make. With the power of offense loaded Pits, I think the opposite is true. I'm not saying get into a run 'n' gun, but, take it to them. You'll win.

 

[burk48237]

Kronwell who was injured last year is the headhunter on the Detroit D. When he's on the ice it's shades of Konstentenov, the Pitt players better keep their heads up. Stewart is a hitter too. The Wings top five defenseman are real good and four of them could be number ones on many teams. The other thing about Detroits Defenseman is most of them move the puck real effectively. They don't just clear it out, they start the offense. I really think it's the strenght of the team.

 

[rjny36]

Kronwell who was injured last year is the headhunter on the Detroit D. When he's on the ice it's shades of Konstentenov, the Pitt players better keep their heads up. Stewart is a hitter too. The Wings top five defenseman are real good and four of them could be number ones on many teams. The other thing about Detroits Defenseman is most of them move the puck real effectively. They don't just clear it out, they start the offense. I really think it's the strenght of the team.

+1

Kronwall has had a great postseason. Both he and Schnieder were injured during last year's Conference Finals. Two of the Top 3 defensemen were gone.

As far as the defense moving the puck effectively, that's absolutely true. They're the key to jumpstarting the offense. If you need any proof of this at all, look back to February of this year. Detroit was decimated by injuries. Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall were all out at the same time. The whole month was one loss after another. Scoring was low as hell.

 

[canopener]

if the Pens have any advantage in offensive lines it's that the have 2 first lines. neither are a good a Detroit's first line so you could say their second line is better than Detroit's.



First line, Detroit
Second line, Pens
Third line, Detroit
Fourth line, Detroit
Defense, Detroit
Goal,even
Coaching,Detroit
Home Ice,Detroit


Aj


The Pen have to get one out out of the first two in Detroit, if not.......

The Pens Third and Maybe Fourth lines could pass for Second lines on most other NHL teams.