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The 410 + 115 rule?

So its been WELL covered by both the "Anti-Mixed Drivers Club" as well as the law of "Ohms & Wattage" that you just DON'T mix a 4x10 cab with a 1x15 cab. The 15 ends up getting half the wattage of the amp and emits magic tone smoke before the 10's even start to groove. (Not to mention the mixed driver phasing issues, and the fact that driver size does not have relation to how low of frequency it can pump.)

So, my Friday question as we clock out of our 9-5 and hit the weekend: why did Ampeg make an SVT- 1540HE cab with a single 15 (on bottom) and 4x10 on the top?? It goes against all logic, right? At least Peavey did a 2x10 plus 15 combo cab, not a 4x10. Why would someone buy the 1540HE cab that is the same size as an 8x10 fridge but without half the abilities? Boggles the mind... Happy weekend gigging! :)
 
So its been WELL covered by both the "Anti-Mixed Drivers Club" as well as the law of "Ohms & Wattage" that you just DON'T mix a 4x10 cab with a 1x15 cab.

It depends because the law of "Ohms & Wattage" does not cover relationships of cone excursion vers cab tuning vers system input power. Power handling means nothing about cone excusion at the lows. Lots of cabs with a lower power handling can easily compete with higher rated cabs that means regarding mechanical power handling at the lows.

The 15 ends up getting half the wattage of the amp and emits magic tone smoke before the 10's even start to groove. (Not to mention the mixed driver phasing issues, and the fact that driver size does not have relation to how low of frequency it can pump.).

Thermal overpowering may cause magic smoke but, it's not as easy as it looks like to achieve sufficiant "average" power that will cause the smoke. Even with heavy compressed sounds it's hard way to get more than 1/3 average out of the amplifier. Any 300 watt rated cab would need around 900 watt amplifier to reach average thermal power, therefore would demand for around 1800 watt amplifier power if a 115 cab was mixed with a 410. IMO the overpowering "weakest" link argument is a real thing but, most often unrealistic. While more important driver excursion linits remain mostly unnoted.

Phase issues are often referenced but IMHO mostly ain't thought right to the end. MI gear is a somewhat different animal than audio HighEnd equipment you can pay several thousand bugs for. HighEnd audio equipment should be as perfect and accurate as possible while MI gear trails a very different aim sometimes. While MI cabs may provide a distinct musical sounding THD to the contrary audio cabinits shall provide as less THD as possible. Any skinny stacking of drivers will cause phase issues which are never tolerated with pro audio gear. As musicians we tolerate (and sometimes wish to have) a lot of issues which are a no go at the pro audio world.

In this case
Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.
The phase difference is referenced as an issue but the application is missing. The phase difference was an issue with pro audio but it was not with stacking cabs for bass guitar application. The foreward phase response of the 15" driver would somewhat compensate the wider distance to the bass players ears.
But (to the contrary) the very important consideration of group delay at the lows is totally missing at this thread!

Hope I ain't misunderstood. For highend audio it's very important to provide as less as possible phase deviations. But at least with any skinny stacking of MI drivers any demand of tight phase response is obsolete.

Lots of MI drivers are OEM drivers designed by customer requirements. Those drivers can't be purchased of the rag. I'm wondering why the MI industry does not give more respect to extended low end with their 10" drivers, of course in a trade of with efficiency and sound coloring and "feel", I'm wondering because extended low end and large Xmax seems to be the most important spec to most of all players!

Just a couple of thoughts, hope nobody feels offended.
 
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This is tough for me I uesd 410 115 for 10 years and it sounded great . edan xlt rig but it does make since matching drivers . I now use 212 for bars and 2 212 for outside gigs call it what ever you want but 410 and 115 can and do sound good .
 
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Knowing what we do these days and the power levels available would I feel it is in anyone's best interest to recommend this, no. Was it done in the past and still done today, sure. Can it work and sound good, sure. Does that mean we should not learn from the advances made since it was first done? Hey, Joe Shimo did it so it's all good right? It's up to each person to use the greater knowledge of current times or put their heads back in the sands of the past. No judgements. It's your ears and your money.
 
About 15 years ago I gigged with a group that had one of those ampeg 410+15 cabs. IIRC, it had the option to bi amp, or run full range at 8 ohms. Fairly low power handling too.

Not knowing any better, we would pair it with another 15" cab I had. (On top) barely fit some places.
Run with my old 350 watt B2R, it was actually pretty devastating, on stage at least. Funny, the single 15 was getting the same watts as the 410+15. Never had any problems, probably because of the smaller amp and a ridiculous amount of surface area. Never had to turn up too much. We knew it was overkill in the least, but ya know, rock n roll, we were kids, got to have stacks like the big guys on tv.
 
Outside of Talk Bass I see lots of people doing it without complaints.

Would the people using it even know what to look for - doubtful.

It's not like the rig is going to blow up or not work.

What you will see though that people that use this type of rig are oblivious to is:

Why did I blow the speaker in my 1X15 cab ?

Why does the audience complain that there is too much bass in one area, and other places in the room have none.
 
Outside of Talk Bass I see lots of people doing it without complaints.
They only do it because they saw some other guy do it. People do lots of things that don't make sense merely because other people do it. No one wants to feel left out. Why do people show up at their country club wearing those stupid flat soled cordovan loafers with the little tassel on it? Because if they showed up with Keens or Doc Martens, they'd be shunned or expelled.
 
Here's how it worked for me. Friday night - I needed a rig - money was burning a hole in my pocket - the store was about to close - the salesman was good - I had my pickup...load it up. Found out later that the cabs sounded like dodo together. Did I learn my lesson? Doubt it.
 
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Would the people using it even know what to look for - doubtful.

It's not like the rig is going to blow up or not work.

What you will see though that people that use this type of rig are oblivious to is:

Why did I blow the speaker in my 1X15 cab ?

Why does the audience complain that there is too much bass in one area, and other places in the room have none.

Points well taken and my only thought is that there are people who have been doing it for decades with great results and I have sat in audiences listening to that setup and it sounded great to me? now does it always work under every circumstance absolutely not but it can work.
 
why did Ampeg make an SVT- 1540HE cab with a single 15 (on bottom) and 4x10 on the top?

In my amp,Ampeg B3158,i have one 15" speaker and one 8".BUT...ampeg put 2 separate amps inside my combo,one for the 15" and one for the 8",with very differed crossover point between them and the 8" speaker have isolation material behide it.My combo have a separate mix control knob for the 2 amps.In that case the Ampeg did the right think.
 
Points well taken and my only thought is that there are people who have been doing it for decades with great results and I have sat in audiences listening to that setup and it sounded great to me? now does it always work under every circumstance absolutely not but it can work.
410 + 115 is like skinny ties. In one generation then out the next. Next generation back in style!
They told us stop eating BBQ steaks, charcoal causes cancer, now they tell us, charcoal is good for us, now they say all red meat is bad again! Now gimme my steak!

If you use this configuration better have a very powerful 15" speaker.