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The 410 + 115 rule?

#21
Coolhandjjl said:
They only do it because they saw some other guy do it. People do lots of things that don't make sense merely because other people do it. No one wants to feel left out. Why do people show up at their country club wearing those stupid flat soled cordovan loafers with the little tassel on it? Because if they showed up with Keens or Doc Martens, they'd be shunned or expelled.
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Before all of these super efficient cab choices people were doing it and nobody was complaining now that we have all of these different cabs to choose from its a prehistoric practice. In my opinion if there's a bass player out there who feels their rig sounds good with mixed cabs so be it I remember my dad and his buddies arguing about fuel injection vs carburetors when they were building race cars way back when.
 
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#22
Now I used to have an SVT 15 and and SVT410 cab that I stacked. Funny thing was the 15 was much brighter than the 410. I ended up using the 15 as an "amp stand" - putting the 410 on top, closer to my ears, with the 15 not even hooked up. At gigs I usually just brought the 410. Eventually sold the 15. (and I guess I sold the 410 - not sure when/where/why, bc I liked that cab. Maybe I left it somewhere??)

A lot of people play a 410 with a 15. The weird thing was that Ampeg made a single cabinet with both in it. That's what I didn't understand. It looks like a regular fridge but its not.
 
#23
ashtray said:
A lot of people play a 410 with a 15. The weird thing was that Ampeg made a single cabinet with both in it. That's what I didn't understand. It looks like a regular fridge but its not.
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Had one that I took on a trade (back then I DID mix cabs, but I did it bi-amped).

It was the worst cab I ever had, could not get rid of it fast enough.

At least Ampeg stopped producing it, I want to know what Mesa's excuse is for the Powerhouse 1000/1200

ETA - I still kick myself in the ass for that trade. The reason ? - I traded an EV215M for it :banghead:
 
#26
Some folks like spinach but I don't. Lot's of folks like those new PA skinny towers (mid/high band) but I'm missing the typical punch at the mid band of a single 12" or 15" driver. Some of my fellows love the coloring sound of an analoge studio console while I love the digital processing way. I think it all depends on personal taste.
 
#27
image.jpeg

I just found this on a quick search.
It's a 400 watt cab.
 
#28
DwaynieAD said:
I bet a lot of the people running the 410 115 setup are under the belief that 15 have more lows and 10s have more punch. I see something to that affect come up on Tb at least once a month if not more.

To paraphrase what was mentioned earlier in this thread, we didn't know any better before, now we do, use that knowledge.
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I never knew any of this mixed driver issues until joining TB last year, and yes I always heard the 15 for bass -4/10 for midrange thing for the longest time!
IME mixed driver setups' are sold as a bargain package deal quite often!!

I've owned a few mixed driver setups before, the 1st being a Sonic 4/10 15 rig my father gave to me when he quit gigging, the 2nd a trace Elliot combo 15 and I bought a trace 4/10 for more volume, well I didn't realize it at the time but I now think I was experiencing phase issues as the combo was louder on its own without the 4/10!

The next rig I got was from a neighbor who was selling his SVT 2 non pro with a 4/10 and 15 for $1,200 and he wouldn't subtract one of the cabs so it was all or nothing!! Well that rig sounded damn near perfect though just the 4/10 was enough alone, together it was massive sounding so whatever issues it might've had were undetectable to me or others!!

Before I built my fEARful I saw a local CL ad for Hartke 2/10 and 15 cabs for $300, so I jumped on it! It actually sounds amazing with my GK 800RB in bi-amp mode!! The 2/10 is 120watts and the 15 is 180, so I run the treble/hi midrange to the 2/10 and bass to the 15 as if I'm understanding correct treble frequencies require less power than bass, unless my limited understanding of amps is indeed incorrect it seems to be a pretty ideal setup with a bi-amped head!! And yes, I know that a hartke 15 isn't an ideal cab as a subwoofer, but I go pretty easy on the low end anyways so it works out for me!!

Really, I'm not doubting any of the science behind this, but I think it *can* work sometimes even if that's not ideal!!
 
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#29
depends how you look at your gear ,as in ,the audio engineer in me wants to re-enforce my sound efficiently and to have the best program quality,however the musician in me realizes that the bass is a musical instrument and i see that my rigg is a musical instrument and is part of my sound and i use that to achieve "my sound" ,
science and physics all you want but ppl hear just as much with their minds subjectively as they do with their ears.
i like my mixed driver rigg , i also like the rigg as a single quad or a single 15 , i just like my rigg , i also like my twin 15 and i like carrots mmmmmm carrots purple carrots are great tooooo
 
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#31
ashtray said:
So its been WELL covered by both the "Anti-Mixed Drivers Club" as well as the law of "Ohms & Wattage" that you just DON'T mix a 4x10 cab with a 1x15 cab. The 15 ends up getting half the wattage of the amp and emits magic tone smoke before the 10's even start to groove. (Not to mention the mixed driver phasing issues, and the fact that driver size does not have relation to how low of frequency it can pump.)

So, my Friday question as we clock out of our 9-5 and hit the weekend: why did Ampeg make an SVT- 1540HE cab with a single 15 (on bottom) and 4x10 on the top?? It goes against all logic, right? At least Peavey did a 2x10 plus 15 combo cab, not a 4x10. Why would someone buy the 1540HE cab that is the same size as an 8x10 fridge but without half the abilities? Boggles the mind... Happy weekend gigging! :)
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Those rules were made up ... Some of the best ideas come when you break the rules ...

All PA systems mix drivers ...
 
#36
I don't know about the Ampeg cab specifically. But "back in the day" 10 inch speakers usually had smaller voice coils and magnets and didn't handle as much power as a 15" ... and four 10" speakers that handled 25 watts each and a 15" that handled 100 watts would have been a reasonable combination. 100 watt amp was considered high power back when I was starting out - 200 watts was just plain nuts. A Hammond B3 would be going through a Leslie cab with 40 watt amp.

Further ... back in those days you could buy premium JBL 15" bass speakers - but the only 10" speakers good for bass would have been stamped frame with ordinary round copper wound voice coil. You could buy cast frame 10" JBL speakers but they weren't useful for bass (at least not without a crossover). So I think it would have been fairly easy to find a 15" or 18" speaker that could handle 100-200 watts but very difficult to find a 10" that would have handled more than 40-50 watts. (at least that's how I remember those days).
 
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#37
Of course we all know this comes up regularly on TB. This has caused me to reflect on the subject. Some folks say "I play through a 410 and a 115 and it sounds great". Sure, but compared to what? Here's an exercise: play through each cab individually. Which one do you like more? Let's say its the 410. If you like the 410 more than the 115, logic dictates that you will like two 410's more than one 410 and one 15.
 
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#39
Ric5 said:
Those rules were made up ... Some of the best ideas come when you break the rules ...

All PA systems mix drivers ...
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As someone else mentioned, PA's use crossovers.

Let us know how breaking the rule of gravity works for you.

Speaker design isn't "rules". It's physics and probability.
It's entirely possible that a 410 and 115 together can sound great. And if you have one and love it, rock on.
However, you can't say it sounds "better" than 2 of your 410's together (no 15) or 2 of your 15's (no 410s) unless you try both and compare.
It might be that the 410/115 sounds better to you.

All folks are saying here is that there is only a small *likelihood* a 410/115 setup sounding better than 2 of that same 410 or 2 of that same 15.
It is more likely (physics) that the "two of a kind" will sound better. It is *possible* that the mix will sound better.

I haven't seen many people arguing "mixed cabs are great" that have done A/B comparisons of mixed vs doubled identical cabs.
I HAVE seen a lot of folks here who HAVE done the side by side comparos say "the doubled identical cabs sounded much better than the mixed cabs."
 
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#40
Ric5 said:
Those rules were made up ... Some of the best ideas come when you break the rules ...

All PA systems mix drivers ...
Click to expand...

You have already been informed on the use of crossovers.

It is also important to note that the speakers used in a PA system are designed to be used specifically within a certain bandwidth. It is a huge difference over using two different full range cabs.
 
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