1. With that many cabs, I doubt any of them are being pushed very hard.
2. Outside of maybe the first few rows, the audience is hearing his bass through the PA.
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The argument for (or) against mixing cabs - example: 115 & 410
- Thread starter WaynerBass
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2. Outside of maybe the first few rows, the audience is hearing his bass through the PA.
Also, doesn't Flea use 2001RBs? If so, there is a distinct possibility that the 410 and the 115 are on different power amps.
see middle of post #10.
i could still use a rock to drive a nail, and that would work right?
but a hammer does a much better job. will yield better results, with a reduced chance of failure and injury.
you can keep using a rock, I prefer a hammer. they achieve the same end result. One is definitively better/more efficient/accurate/safer.
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You guys, I gotcha I really do, all I'm saying is I see the a lot of biasing against mixing cabs of different sized drivers and I get it.. a 410 cab moves 40" of air as opposed to a 215 cab moving 30" of air, one will sound louder over the other, will be felt to hit harder than the other.. I get it.. the 15's produce lower frequencies usually than say 10's do, but then again good cabinet design contributes as well...
For my experience and it's been a long while for me.. I've never been told by a Soundman or a fan on the floor that the bass sounded horrible, I have never blew out a speaker or head, I must have had the best of luck in this regard.
When I did a search on this I found the one article I posted that was just one out of 400,000 google pops up.. I know bass guys run through a house system or live sound rig..
For my experience and it's been a long while for me.. I've never been told by a Soundman or a fan on the floor that the bass sounded horrible, I have never blew out a speaker or head, I must have had the best of luck in this regard.
When I did a search on this I found the one article I posted that was just one out of 400,000 google pops up.. I know bass guys run through a house system or live sound rig..
I hate to sound condescending, but I don't think you do get it...
Quoted for truth... just be sure to listen with your ears, not your eyes.
Not to mention the cubic volume is not calculated by adding up the diameters of all the drivers...
I don't find it condescending, I find it kinda ignorant and biased. But it's cool man to each his own opinion - my real world experience has shown me something different than what your saying - I don't always have to plug into a PA system as I do not play arena type gigs, but I have played my share shows and have pushed my rigs pretty hard to know what is written on paper does not always hold true to real world instances.
Your calculation is way off. You need to compare the cone areas. Even then it doesn't tell you the whole story as you need to consider how far those cones move in and out (excursion) - cubic inches of air are what matter, not square inches, and definitely not just diameter.
EDIT: ... and a 2x15 cab has 12.5% more cone area than a 4x10.
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speaker size (as a general rule) tells you the size of the speaker.
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Cabinet design, and driver specs tell you more.
I by the way use a 112/115 stack (designed to work together by an accomplished designer) with drivers that are matched for power handling, SPL and frequency response.
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Cabinet design, and driver specs tell you more.
I by the way use a 112/115 stack (designed to work together by an accomplished designer) with drivers that are matched for power handling, SPL and frequency response.
I was actually replying to the part where you insinuated that cabinet design was less important than speaker size. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Google Bill Fitzmaurice.
Real world for more years than i have been playing.
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Rewind, OP, and GD.
Mixed cabs can sound good. If you're playing them and you like the sound, great.
They *might* not sound as good as 2 of the same cabs. The probability is that 2 of the same cabs will sound better.
And there is no real basis for "15's have more lows" or other BS that speaker size by itself tells you anything about the sound or responsiveness of a speaker cabinet.
So if the question is "I have a 410, should I get a 115 to give it more lows" the most correct answer is "try a 115 with it, and try a matching 410, and see what you like better". With a strong chance that you'll prefer the matching 410 and, if someone wants to take the time, the physics to explain why.
If, OTOH, the question is "I play a 115/410 rig, and I like how it sounds, do I suck?" the answer is "not necessarily". That is, you might suck, but if your rig sounds good it sounds good.
Mixed cabs can sound good. If you're playing them and you like the sound, great.
They *might* not sound as good as 2 of the same cabs. The probability is that 2 of the same cabs will sound better.
And there is no real basis for "15's have more lows" or other BS that speaker size by itself tells you anything about the sound or responsiveness of a speaker cabinet.
So if the question is "I have a 410, should I get a 115 to give it more lows" the most correct answer is "try a 115 with it, and try a matching 410, and see what you like better". With a strong chance that you'll prefer the matching 410 and, if someone wants to take the time, the physics to explain why.
If, OTOH, the question is "I play a 115/410 rig, and I like how it sounds, do I suck?" the answer is "not necessarily". That is, you might suck, but if your rig sounds good it sounds good.
dawind99
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Electronic crossover. That said, If you can get them aligned mechanically or electronically, their sensitivities and power handling works in the equation it's fine. Is it necessary? It's up to you. Back in 1986 (and I only remember the date because on the way back to Boston from VT we were listening to Bill Buckner drop the ball
we were playing with Pousette Dart Band and John Troy was using a stack of Thiele cabs: 15/12/10 and sounded amazing. Of course, John Troy could have made almost anything sound amazing I mix drivers for FOH designs in order to cover the variety of program material they're required to process and the can be aligned with electronic processing: Omnidrive, Ashly Protea, etc. but I don't see the necessity or benefit for MI cabs due to single instrument bandwidth/response requirement and continuity of that response.
Another way to put what he was saying: 15s do not necessarily have more low-end than 10s. Some 15s respond very well to high frequencies, some 10s have amazing low frequencies. It's all in how they were designed and the cabinet they are in.
To each their own. To be honest I've never met a 4x10+1x15 rig that I cared for, used 4x10s exclusively for a long time. Ive since added an epiphany 2x12 that i love and in my opinion its sounds great combined with my buddy's old sunn 2x15 (celestian neos). For fun we put a ring in one of the speaker holes in the Sunn allowing us to drop a vintage gauss 12". So now were breaking all the rules with a cabinet that has mixed drivers that weren't designed to work with each other and guess what...it sounds better than it ever did (in comparison to the stock sunn drivers as well as the celestian neo 15s). So I'm subscribing to the school of Ill listen with my own ears and formulate my own opinion instead of drinking whatever the latest talk bass kool-aid is
No, you haven't, because....
Ergo.
I am somewhat younger than you. Never played pro. Probably have 100 shows under my belt. I played exactly 10 of them with FOH support. I've blown 5 15"s and destroyed the crossover in a 12" speaker.
I played with mixed drivers most of my life. Never got what I wanted compared to when I played with matched drivers.
I have played my rig loud, you have not. There is nothing wrong with that.
I found the limits of what my cabinets, you have not. There was something wrong with that. I'd rather not again. So I try and learn the science.
Quite frankly you can play you bass out of a HAM radio but if you aren't exceeding its capabilities you WON'T blow it.
So, yes you have been lucky. Not in regards to your equipment, but in regards to success. When you played larger gigs you were probably supported by the PA. All the speakers and watts in your rig didn't mean anything. All the speakers and watts in the PA did the work.
The mixing sizes blowing drivers thing only happens when you push things past the point of sense. Reasonable volumes don't have these issues. Of course with reasonable volumes you can carry less cabinet and achieve the same thing....
The mixing drivers to achieve a tone thing only works when the overall sensitivity of each cabinet is close. 4x10 vs 115 is generally 2:1 ratio of sensitivity. So your 15 isn't being heard over the 4x10 much. A 210 over a 115, generally much closer. Same goes for a 2x10 with a 4x10 1:2 ratio in sensitivity if they're the same impedance. If there not the ratio can be all over the map.
Those are generalities but thats generally what folks are screaming about.
Also, welcome to Talkbass, I learn here everyday. You can come along.
Why all the agonising over 10s and 15s when you can get 12s and worry about something -- anything -- else?
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