The B-15n vs PF-50t: Shootout

[bassestkkm]

Hi everyone.
I figured I would introduce myself and the project that I’m about to begin. This is all a new experience for me and I appreciate any and all input along the way. Especially if you wanna hear anything attempted.

I began playing bass when I was 10. I went down to the local pawnshop with my dad and I’ll see you to my first squire affinity Bass. We knocked $20 off the price because it was missing a string. I had been learning piano for a few years by that time, as well as playing trombone and tuba in band.

One day, that bass was stolen. I borrowed the school bass for a few months until one day, while playing on the corner waiting for my mom to pick me up from school, a gentleman came and gave me a bass for free. It is the black precision Bass with the music man pick up in the pictures below. Also, the one that I am playing in my profile picture.

That bass and my Ampeg 410 were my workhorses for the next 10 years until I started to earn some money and thus my collection of gear has grown to some of what is pictured below. I’ve been a part of talk Bass for over 10 years, and I’ve learned an immense amount as well as Seeing some of my dreams fulfilled as now I own both of these super cool amps which I want to record so that others can hear how they are similar, and how they are very different.

I’ll be using a few different pieces of gear.
Amps:
Ampeg B-15n ~1965
Ampeg PF50-t 115HE

Mics:
CL-1 Cloud Lifter In Line Pre Amp
Shure SM57
Shure Beta52a
EV RE20
Blue condenser

Interface:
Focusrite 2i2 2nd gen

Basses:
1. Squier Classic Vibe 60s P Fiesta Red, T.I. Flats.
2. MIM Fender Jaguar 2006-2010. Round wound. 70s bridge pickup position
3. Fender Road Worn MIM Jazz Bass 60s. Rounds.
4. Black Franken Bass
5. Maybe? MIA, Jaco fretless Jazz bass

Pedals:
Probably won’t use pedals, but will have a few at my disposal Including.
Boss Compressor
TC Delay
TC hall of fame 2
Digi Looper
DiCosimo 360+
Lehle ABY box
Manta Ray Preamp

 

[gtirard]

Interesting, thanks. I'm following…

(it remind's me of Jo Choui's videos on Youtube where he compares many legacy tube amps and modern alternatives, but I don't think he's ever done a B15 vs PF50T shoutout).

EDIT: Do you plan to record A/B Youtube videos like Jo Choui or SoundCloud audio samples like scubaduba or just share your opinion?

 

[JimmyM]

Very familiar with all your gear, and I predict that you will be having quite the fun time!

 

[tom-g]

When comparing the amps play the whatever you what to compare into a looper and have the looper then play back the sample into the amps for comparison. IMHO that would make it more comparable, because the human element would be taken out of the equation for differences of two different takes.

 

[gtirard]

When comparing the amps play the whatever you what to compare into a looper and have the looper then play back the sample into the amps for comparison. IMHO that would make it more comparable, because the human element would be taken out of the equation for differences of two different takes.

I agree and I do the same to compare a couple of amps, except that I use a reamp box and a DAW instead of a looper (I did it with a looper in the past, the reamp technique is the same with a few extra benefits).

But I still wonder if it is really better to remove the human factor because thr way tube amps respond to the playing dynamics and the way we adapt our playing is part of the pleasure… or part of the mystic? I don’t know…

 

[JimmyM]

When comparing the amps play the whatever you what to compare into a looper and have the looper then play back the sample into the amps for comparison. IMHO that would make it more comparable, because the human element would be taken out of the equation for differences of two different takes.

Loopers inject their own energy into the sound and you lose something in the translation. It’s a thing that should work on paper but it doesn’t work as well in the not paper world, at least to me. I would rather hear raw tracks.

 

[tom-g]

It‘s just a suggestion to make a comparison more valid, IMHO. Do you want to compare the playing or the amps? By the way there is always the possibility to do both.

 

[JimmyM]

It‘s just a suggestion to make a comparison more valid, IMHO. Do you want to compare the playing or the amps? By the way there is always the possibility to do both.

Sure, if the guy wants to do both, no problem. But I think as long as it’s fairly consistent playing, I would rather hear what they sound like as is rather than whatever the cheap preamp in a looper injects. Not that I’m against loopers by any means, but in a tube amp shootout, I want to hear unadulterated tubey goodness

 

[tom-g]

Sure, if the guy wants to do both, no problem. But I think as long as it’s fairly consistent playing, I would rather hear what they sound like as is rather than whatever the cheap preamp in a looper injects. Not that I’m against loopers by any means, but in a tube amp shootout, I want to hear unadulterated tubey goodness

It‘s also possible to go the reamp route like @gtirard said. I am in the camp of eliminating all differences as much as possible to make the result as objective as it can get. Having two different takes to make a comparison make the result null and void, IMHO.

 

[chiphaleonbass]

Excited to hear the results

 

[Ric Vice]

On paper there are a lot of differences between the two amps. 12AX7 vs 6SL7 preamp tubes. PF 50t has essentially a SVT preamp vs the PF 20t that’s a B-15N . Should be interesting to see if you can dial in the B-15N sound on the PF 50t. Good hunting.

 

[bassestkkm]

Interesting, thanks. I'm following…

(it remind's me of Jo Choui's videos on Youtube where he compares many legacy tube amps and modern alternatives, but I don't think he's ever done a B15 vs PF50T shoutout).

EDIT: Do you plan to record A/B Youtube videos like Jo Choui or SoundCloud audio samples like scubaduba or just share your opinion?

Ideally, I would have a little of both. I know how much hand positioning, pressure, and intonation have an effect on consistency. I also know that the amps both have a way of keeping you playing.

In all likeliness, I’ll try to keep the audio as unfiltered as possible. But if I do a sound reference of DI, Mic’d, Unlooped, and Looped, it may allow everyone to form their own opinions.

Very familiar with all your gear, and I predict that you will be having quite the fun time!

You are one of the first people who had a big influence on me in here. I’m very grateful for your time and knowledge in this community.

When comparing the amps play the whatever you what to compare into a looper and have the looper then play back the sample into the amps for comparison. IMHO that would make it more comparable, because the human element would be taken out of the equation for differences of two different takes.

Makes sense to me.

I agree and I do the same to compare a couple of amps, except that I use a reamp box and a DAW instead of a looper (I did it with a looper in the past, the reamp technique is the same with a few extra benefits).

But I still wonder if it is really better to remove the human factor because thr way tube amps respond to the playing dynamics and the way we adapt our playing is part of the pleasure… or part of the mystic? I don’t know…

I’m kinda with you on this. But I’ll try to include a bit of everything.

Loopers inject their own energy into the sound and you lose something in the translation. It’s a thing that should work on paper but it doesn’t work as well in the not paper world, at least to me. I would rather hear raw tracks.

It‘s just a suggestion to make a comparison more valid, IMHO. Do you want to compare the playing or the amps? By the way there is always the possibility to do both.

Sure, if the guy wants to do both, no problem. But I think as long as it’s fairly consistent playing, I would rather hear what they sound like as is rather than whatever the cheap preamp in a looper injects. Not that I’m against loopers by any means, but in a tube amp shootout, I want to hear unadulterated tubey goodness

It‘s also possible to go the reamp route like @gtirard said. I am in the camp of eliminating all differences as much as possible to make the result as objective as it can get. Having two different takes to make a comparison make the result null and void, IMHO.

I like that everyone would want a slightly different approach. Like I said, it’s gonna be a project.

Maybe multiple videos of just playing, but a simpler series of shorter ones with looper comparisons. It’ll allow specific bass & amp combinations to be separated.

Also, given that there’s 3-4 different mics involved, I don’t plan on recording with more than one at a time. It’s be different if I just set a mic in the middle of the room and waited for what came out, but I don’t think that’s a true reflection of amp only. Maybe a room mic and amp mic may be better.

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

So Anyway, any teenager playing in a Gold Lame' Jacket is destined for great things.

I've owned a couple of old B-15's in the past. Great amps.
By the time they brought out the new Porta Flex line, I'd moved on. They were just too heavy from me to gig with, and since I don't record, I felt like I'd be holding it as a prisoner in my music room.

Good Luck in your journey.

 

[tom-g]

Ideally, I would have a little of both. I know how much hand positioning, pressure, and intonation have an effect on consistency. I also know that the amps both have a way of keeping you playing.

In all likeliness, I’ll try to keep the audio as unfiltered as possible. But if I do a sound reference of DI, Mic’d, Unlooped, and Looped, it may allow everyone to form their own opinions.


You are one of the first people who had a big influence on me in here. I’m very grateful for your time and knowledge in this community.

Makes sense to me.


I’m kinda with you on this. But I’ll try to include a bit of everything.










I like that everyone would want a slightly different approach. Like I said, it’s gonna be a project.

Maybe multiple videos of just playing, but a simpler series of shorter ones with looper comparisons. It’ll allow specific bass & amp combinations to be separated.

Also, given that there’s 3-4 different mics involved, I don’t plan on recording with more than one at a time. It’s be different if I just set a mic in the middle of the room and waited for what came out, but I don’t think that’s a true reflection of amp only. Maybe a room mic and amp mic may be better.

Maybe using a speaker level DI with the same speaker along with the mics on a different track will bring you closer to knowing what the amp itself contributes to the overall sound.

 

[pbassnut]

Hi everyone.
I figured I would introduce myself and the project that I’m about to begin. This is all a new experience for me and I appreciate any and all input along the way. Especially if you wanna hear anything attempted.

I began playing bass when I was 10. I went down to the local pawnshop with my dad and I’ll see you to my first squire affinity Bass. We knocked $20 off the price because it was missing a string. I had been learning piano for a few years by that time, as well as playing trombone and tuba in band.

View attachment 7206986

One day, that bass was stolen. I borrowed the school bass for a few months until one day, while playing on the corner waiting for my mom to pick me up from school, a gentleman came and gave me a bass for free. It is the black precision Bass with the music man pick up in the pictures below. Also, the one that I am playing in my profile picture.
View attachment 7206984

That bass and my Ampeg 410 were my workhorses for the next 10 years until I started to earn some money and thus my collection of gear has grown to some of what is pictured below. I’ve been a part of talk Bass for over 10 years, and I’ve learned an immense amount as well as Seeing some of my dreams fulfilled as now I own both of these super cool amps which I want to record so that others can hear how they are similar, and how they are very different.

View attachment 7207003

View attachment 7207004
I’ll be using a few different pieces of gear.
Amps:
Ampeg B-15n ~1965
Ampeg PF50-t 115HE

Mics:
CL-1 Cloud Lifter In Line Pre Amp
Shure SM57
Shure Beta52a
EV RE20
Blue condenser

Interface:
Focusrite 2i2 2nd gen

Basses:
1. Squier Classic Vibe 60s P Fiesta Red, T.I. Flats.
2. MIM Fender Jaguar 2006-2010. Round wound. 70s bridge pickup position
3. Fender Road Worn MIM Jazz Bass 60s. Rounds.
4. Black Franken Bass
5. Maybe? MIA, Jaco fretless Jazz bass

Pedals:
Probably won’t use pedals, but will have a few at my disposal Including.
Boss Compressor
TC Delay
TC hall of fame 2
Digi Looper
DiCosimo 360+
Lehle ABY box
Manta Ray Preamp

Cool project. I had a B-15 back when I was playing full-time and dug the sound. Unfortunately, it didn't have anywhere near the power for anything I was doing except for rehearsals and fairly rare studio work. In recent years, I've attempted to mimic the sound with a Tech21 VTBass DI and a Sushi Box Slampegg X into the effects return patch point of some of my amps which yielded good sounds that were plenty loud enough and gave me some semblance of that great B-15 sound from back in the day. I've never owned one, but have played through an Ampeg B-100R solid state 1x15 combo a bunch of times and found it to be one of the best modern versions of the B-15 sound that I've encountered ...

Ampeg B-100R Combo Review: Vintage Sound of the 60s - Bass Guitar Shack

The Ampeg B-100R Combo amp captures the classic sound of the 60s. From Motown to rock, this little one is built to impress.

bassguitarshack.com

It's too bad they're so heavy and awkward to schlep for me with its one handle on top so I've never pulled the trigger on one (though I came close).

 

[billiard]

I've had both, a 69 B15N and a PF50T. Both are great sounding, but for the DI capabilities of the PF50T, I like it best.
A PF50T with OLD transformers would be amazing!

 

[fivestringgecko]

Also following.

Even though almost all of what I currently do is live gigs through IEMs, a nice B-15 has still been on my grail list for a long time. But I've also been really curious about the PF50T because my outdoor rig is a PF500 with a pair of PF115HEs, and a PF50 would be a nice "poor man's B-15."

Looking forward to the comparison!

5sg.

 

[dmt]

Thanks for sharing your journey.

If we’re taking votes, I’ll vote for trying to play the same thing through both amps and then even letting your muse take you where you want a bit (if it wants to take you off the pre-planned course; no need to force it). Part of the reason to have a heavy tube amp is the interaction with the instrument and the player, so I’d like to hear the affect of that.

However, as you mentioned, some [interactive-less] looped a - b comparisons between the two amps would be illustrative and useful to add, too.

Good luck with your project

 

[KevInDaBassment]

When comparing the amps play the whatever you what to compare into a looper and have the looper then play back the sample into the amps for comparison. IMHO that would make it more comparable, because the human element would be taken out of the equation for differences of two different takes.

This x10000 ^

Even on high production quality YT channels, I can see some physical difference in the Player's technique or energy when comparing. With how far digital audio technology has come (amp models, effects, recording, etc.) I'd have a hard time believing a modern looper pedal could not replicate a 10-15 second bassline with proper audio fidelity.

 

[bassestkkm]

I can see why this sentiment matters and where it makes sense.

This x10000 ^

Even on high production quality YT channels, I can see some physical difference in the Player's technique or energy when comparing. With how far digital audio technology has come (amp models, effects, recording, etc.) I'd have a hard time believing a modern looper pedal could not replicate a 10-15 second bassline with proper audio fidelity.

I think it might be a happy medium here, might be to play something through a looper into the B-15 and then to see how closely I can match that sound while playing the same loop through the PF-50t and showing how I’m manipulate controls to get there.

Other videos will probably be more jam/goofing off focused.