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the bebensee arrives today!!!!!!

#81
CaptainWally said:
This sounds like a really bad transaction, and you definitely have every right to be upset. Let's see how he responds and if he can't make it right for you.

I rather doubt he intentionally screwed up the design. It's not like he had anything to gain by putting in the wrong inlays and putting the pickups in the wrong place.

You guys are being pretty harsh. Character assault and bravado about lawsuits and flying to California. Can you at least wait to hear how Ken responds before you string him up?
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My thoughts exactly. I think, like someone said, Ken is just logistically challenged.

Also, I don't think this is really going hurt Ken's customer base. Does ANYONE else here have a KB on order, or even considering it? Not that I know of. I think the 3-4 year wait time is reason enough to choose another builder. I only know of 4 other KBs that have been owned by TB members and I don't remember hearing about any issues like this before. I still think that it's just a recent thing. That Ken has lost the passion for building basses that he once had, and so he's getting lazy with it.

The first step is to merely get in touch with Ken, and find out from him why exactly these things went wrong and what he's willing to do about it. Starting out with lawsuits and threats and such isn't the way to start going about this. imo ;)
 
#82
Lokire said:
My thoughts exactly. I think, like someone said, Ken is just logistically challenged.

Also, I don't think this is really going hurt Ken's customer base. Does ANYONE else here have a KB on order, or even considering it? Not that I know of. I think the 3-4 year wait time is reason enough to choose another builder. I only know of 4 other KBs that have been owned by TB members and I don't remember hearing about any issues like this before. I still think that it's just a recent thing. That Ken has lost the passion for building basses that he once had, and so he's getting lazy with it.

The first step is to merely get in touch with Ken, and find out from him why exactly these things went wrong and what he's willing to do about it. Starting out with lawsuits and threats and such isn't the way to start going about this. imo ;)
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True. Starting out with a lawsuit is a bit much. But the fact that he messed up the bass THAT bad is pretty terrible. I mean, if you are in the state of mind where you cannot complete a $5k bass properly, just refund the buyer's money and take a break from building for a while. Maybe I'm being stupid, but that, to me, seems alot better than building the wrong bass for the buyer.
 
#83
Lokire said:
Also, I don't think this is really going hurt Ken's customer base. Does ANYONE else here have a KB on order, or even considering it? Not that I know of. I think the 3-4 year wait time is reason enough to choose another builder. I only know of 4 other KBs that have been owned by TB members and I don't remember hearing about any issues like this before. I still think that it's just a recent thing. That Ken has lost the passion for building basses that he once had, and so he's getting lazy with it.
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Yeah, I thought the guy had dropped off the face of the earth until I saw this thread. I don't think his website's been updated in 6+ years.

4 years is an OK wait for a violin or classical guitar from an in-demand maker. I don't think it's at all acceptable for a bass guitar. I would have tried to get my money back 3 years ago.
 
#84
I am still waiting, no response yet as usual.

I own several businesses and know he is at least obligated to give me a concession for what was done half assed or wrong.
obvoiusly the wenge body is a moot point because it sounds fine and I'd have to get a whole new instrument made for that
and I dont think I'll live (long enough) to see that day!

I am a very patient person and I am trying to be positive and not get mad about this.
I am however a shrewd hardline business man and if this comes down to business and he wont do anything I'll let the beast out.
I know hes probably a nice guy and a hippie to boot but like its been said 5K is 5K
and I am not a millionaire so I dont have that money to burn.

another wait begins for the bebensee....
 
#87
tribal3140 said:
I am still waiting, no response yet as usual.

I own several businesses and know he is at least obligated to give me a concession for what was done half assed or wrong.
obvoiusly the wenge body is a moot point because it sounds fine and I'd have to get a whole new instrument made for that
and I dont think I'll live to see that day!

I am a very patient person and I am trying to be positive and not get mad about this.
I am however a shrewd hardline business man and if this comes down to business and he wont do anything I'll let the beast out.
I know hes probably a nice guy and a hippie to boot but like its been said 5K is 5K
and I am not a millionaire so I dont have that money to burn.

another wait begins for the bebensee....
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By the sound of things, you definitely need some resolution here. I hope you get it.

If he is taking a break from building, I'd hate to see him go out on a bad note. I hope he can fix you up and make you happy with your new instrument. Problems aside, it does look pretty impressive. After which, given his ostensible state of mind, maybe it is a good idea for him to take a break from building. :eyebrow:
 
#88
It just makes you wonder, as with Celinder, how a custom builder can become so arrogant as to do what he wants instead of what the customer orders. In 22 years, I have never even thought of veering from a customers order guidelines, as long as they were doable. (some people have some very odd ideas). Good luck to you in getting some resolution.
 
#91
"Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before"

Sounds pretty familar to me, eh SMASH?! ;)

We all must sympathize with Tribal3140 for having this grievance happen to yet, another TBer. It truly is deplorable.

But without question, Tribal3140 will walk out of this unfortunate situation on top. ;)

JT

SMASH said:
+1. This is deplorable. He obviously didn't give a #### about you or your bass. I'd stop at nothing to get *at the very least* my $5k back out of him. Then again, I'd have pulled the plug a long time ago.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide.
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#95
tribal3140 said:
2 days nothing... I'll email again and call tomorrow.
doses anyone here know him??
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He's a friend of a friend (and a casual friend of mine). I usually see him once or twice a year. I will certainly mention to him that his latest client needs to talk to him promptly if I see him around, and I'll mention this thread to my friend who knows him well.
 
#96
that would be most appreciated
I really dont want to have to get ruthless with the legal system I am prosecuting in a very large lawsuit already and they are miserable.
Todd

3000 hits in a few days, not bad! good to see you all care in our international bass community!
 
#97
Five THOUSAND dollars for something you didn't want. It's more like a fine then a payment, and you get the bass as a free gift.

I don't know what it's like to be a luthier, but I can sort of relate to the KB guy. If you get into something because you love doing it, and decide to do it as a business, then you're in for a sad surprise. When the customer is in charge of the creative aspects of building, then it saps a lot of the fun out of the process for the builder. He's relegated to the task of a drone, simply doing what the customer asks.

That can burn a person out real fast.

Not that it makes any difference to this situation, though. If you run a business and screw a customer over, even if the bass is liquid sex but NOT what he ordered, you're obligated to make it right or refund. Doing neither is criminal, IMO.
 
#98
Earwigger said:
Five THOUSAND dollars for something you didn't want. It's more like a fine then a payment, and you get the bass as a free gift.

I don't know what it's like to be a luthier, but I can sort of relate to the KB guy. If you get into something because you love doing it, and decide to do it as a business, then you're in for a sad surprise. When the customer is in charge of the creative aspects of building, then it saps a lot of the fun out of the process for the builder. He's relegated to the task of a drone, simply doing what the customer asks.

That can burn a person out real fast.
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What does that have to do with this?
:hmm:

It certainly doesn't sound like Tribal was "in charge" of the creative process... he was buying a Bebensee bass that was being built with things he was allowed to choose. Bebensee wasn't relegated to doing anythign other than what he offered to do... build a very expensive custom bass. Somehow I doubt that a gun was held to anyone's head or there was any sort of coercion.

As far as burning a person out... how about waiting four years for a bass, only to find out "the drone" made it's own decisions in spite of you being in charge?

On the one hand it can be a very frustrating business. On the other hand, on a day like today when you see a product delivered that exceeds expectations and the customer is estatic, it's pretty cool. It would be great if all days were like that but that's unrealistic.

Not that it makes any difference to this situation, though. If you run a business and screw a customer over, even if the bass is liquid sex but NOT what he ordered, you're obligated to make it right or refund. Doing neither is criminal, IMO.
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That's the bottom line... if you take an order, eventually fulfill the order and don't keep the customer apprised of changes before delivery... wow.
 
#99
and I'll make a long email short
HE Told me to go screw myself.
Admitted that there a slight seperation between the coco and ziricote but it " has no difference tonally or structurally"
and he lost the email with my pickup placement requirement so he is saying thats a good excuse in putting them where ever he wanted to .

Also told me that the ziricot wasnt cured.
I send him a 2 years dried piece that was 3/4" thick
and he waited almost 2 years to glue it.
now for those of you who dont know most hardwoods airdry ar the rate of 1 year per inch.
I could have sent him a green cut piece and it still would've been dry by the time he used it.

I just can believe what he said back to me
ending it with " I am finished slaving over your bass"
like in 4 years he did any "slaving"

TOTALLY SPEEChLESS


I encourage all of you to tell everyone you know about this lack of caring and respect from KEN. and to not buy or propagate that brand in any way.
 

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