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THE Boutique Bass Cab Shootout

#163
MDBass said:
Looks like we'll be adding a T3W Fearful cab to the lineup as well.

The TalkBass community: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Awesome. That thing should definitely give the Thunderchild a run for its money as far as flat response goes - it may even be the cab to beat in my mind.

It does make me curious as to how you plan on approaching a consistent mic setup for all of the cabs with their different configurations, in particular the three-ways. The room will likely come into play a good bit, but I'm guessing you'll have to back the mic off a little to make sure you capture the full signal and minimize variation due to slight changes in mic position?

I've never attempted to mic my Fearless before, so like I said, I'm very interested in seeing your approach.
 
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#164
I've been looking over the whole
fEARful/fEARless thing and am pretty settled on building 2 x 12/6/1's but don't remember seeing a T3W - what colour beast be this?

Reading up on the Big E out of academic interest now : )

Sorry to hear you had that sad duty MD, never easy.

Cheers Maurie.
 
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#167
As someone who loves a great direct sound through great studio monitors or headphones, I often scoff at bass guitar amps that claim to be “hi fi”. For the most part they are not even close especially as you get louder. So I tend to gravitate toward the other thing that can be really satisfying which is a slushy gritty rock sound.

The closest I’ve ever heard was an SWR big ben with a fearful true 3-way head case. The SWR had deep lows and full/complete mids up to 800hz, and the fearful took it from there, super pure and clean.

I thought the fearless F115 by comparison had a hole in the low mids, a slight boxyness, and some “rock color” in the upper mids with my amps.

FWIW
 
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#168
Kro said:
Awesome. That thing should definitely give the Thunderchild a run for its money as far as flat response goes - it may even be the cab to beat in my mind.

It does make me curious as to how you plan on approaching a consistent mic setup for all of the cabs with their different configurations, in particular the three-ways. The room will likely come into play a good bit, but I'm guessing you'll have to back the mic off a little to make sure you capture the full signal and minimize variation due to slight changes in mic position?

I've never attempted to mic my Fearless before, so like I said, I'm very interested in seeing your approach.
Click to expand...

The plan was to set the 87 about a foot back, centered on each cab.

In theory, this should make the aperture wide enough to hear the information from all components while minimizing the effect of the room.
 
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#169
MDBass said:
The plan was to set the 87 about a foot back, centered on each cab.

In theory, this should make the aperture wide enough to hear the information from all components while minimizing the effect of the room.
Click to expand...
Might be worth talking with some of the speaker gurus and find out what would be optimal for capturing all of the drivers in 2 and 3-way enclosures.
 
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#170
12bass said:
Might be worth talking with some of the speaker gurus and find out what would be optimal for capturing all of the drivers in 2 and 3-way enclosures.
Click to expand...

Yeah, at only a foot back, I'd expect there to be a noticeable difference in tone with the mic centered on the cab vs. centered to the drivers, which on the F115 should be more up and to the right than pure center. Greenboy actually [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] to say about it on their FAQ.
 
#171
Kro said:
Yeah, at only a foot back, I'd expect there to be a noticeable difference in tone with the mic centered on the cab vs. centered to the drivers, which on the F115 should be more up and to the right than pure center. Greenboy actually [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] to say about it on their FAQ.
Click to expand...

Centered and a foot back is just a starting point guys...the Greenboy FAQ also isn't taking into account that we're using a condenser in a controlled studio environment ;)

For most of the cabs, Genzler, Barefaced and Audiokinesis, centered makes the most sense due to the component placement.

The point of the testing is to accurately and honestly record what's being reproduced, so as with any mic placement I'll need to use my ears and adjust accordingly.
 
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#174
I'd set the condenser at your ear level, and as far away from the cabinet as you'd normally stand on stage.

Seems like that would let the signal from all drivers integrate most effectively, while also duplicating how you'd actually be hearing each cab.
 
#175
Kro said:
Oh, I have full faith in you! Just typing what comes to mind. :)
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My autocorrect apparently needs to learn MIC, it switched it even after I'd changed it back :roflmao:

No worries: condenser microphones aren't as directional, and don't have nearly as much proximity effect, as dynamics.

I appreciate that you all weren't willing to let a stranger go to this rather large amount of work to put a useful resource together for the community, only to trip at the finish line :thumbsup:
 
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#176
groovaholic said:
I'd set the condenser at your ear level, and as far away from the cabinet as you'd normally stand on stage.

Seems like that would let the signal from all drivers integrate most effectively, while also duplicating how you'd actually be hearing each cab.
Click to expand...

That may work, but it integrates a whole lot of extra variables that would likely skew the results to a degree: individal height, room acoustics, stage size, etc.

It also doesn't take into account people who have more than one of these cabs, making one of them much closer to ear level, or people who tilt their cabs back.
 
#177
MDBass said:
I appreciate that you all weren't willing to let a stranger go to this rather large amount of work to put a useful resource together for the community, only to trip at the finish line :thumbsup:
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The only way I can think to send you a thank you for all the work is to fly down and help swap cabs and cables around. :)
 
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#178
Lowendtech said:
The only way I can think to send you a thank you for all the work is to fly down and help swap cabs and cables around. :)
Click to expand...

Ha! Once each placement is correct it'll just be ~12 minutes of me hitting spacebar before moving to the next cab, and fortunately nothing weighs over 50lbs, but if you happen to be in town I'd be happy to hang :)

Morten (Bass Buddha) and Jay Terrien are coming by on Monday after I'm done to record/film for Jule, should be a fun day :thumbsup:
 
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#179
MDBass said:
That may work, but it integrates a whole lot of extra variables that would likely skew the results to a degree: individal height, room acoustics, stage size, etc.

It also doesn't take into account people who have more than one of these cabs, making one of them much closer to ear level, or people who tilt their cabs back.
Click to expand...
True, but the off-axis performance is one of the key advantages to these full-range cabs.

And the perceptual bias is part of the test; which one sounds and feels the best?
That might not necessarily be the most accurate cab...and as much as all of us are offering opinions and eager to hear the results, this is YOUR experiment -- so it should reflect what YOU are hearing out of the cabs.
 
#180
MDBass said:
The point of the testing is to accurately and honestly record what's being reproduced, so as with any mix placement I'll need to use my ears and adjust accordingly.
Click to expand...

I think this will be really interesting. However, you've said yourself the point of testing is to be as accurate as possible. Mic'ing several cabs requires measurements to be taken to ensure mic placement is spot on each time. Using your ears isn't necessarily what's best when trying to do an objective test, when sound is a very subjective thing. Your adjustments may not be someone else's preferred adjustments. You have to make sure that what "makes sense" is a universally accepted concept for your audience and not just your opinion, if you're trying to do "definitive" testing as your title suggests.

When bold claims are made, the critiques and judgement will be equally as bold, whether warranted or not.

Also, not directly toward you, but in general for the most accurate testing:

I'd have apprehension to using your pedal boards at all. The best way for consistent and repeatable testing would be to eliminate any chance for variables. Bass ( or prerecorded loops)>amp>cab>mic>interface is about as clean and streamlined as you can get. The only variable in that, should be the cabinet. If one cabinet can't perform as well as another with/without the pedal board, that's useful information.

Mic placement should also be equal amongst all cabs so as not to disadvantage any particular design.

All cabs mic'd at 1 ft, centered on cab
All cabs mic'd at 1 ft, centered on speaker
All cabs mic'd at 1 ft, off-center of speaker cone
All cabs mic'd at xx feet, etc.

That way, when a single speaker cab is mic'd, it's only disadvantage may be mic placement for that test round, not necessarily the entire shootout. Naturally, it exponentially increases the amount of time needed to accurately portray all of these cabs so that they have equal representation, but that should already be accounted for by using the word definitive in the title.

I was a part of testing new and experimental equipment with my unit in the US Army. There's so many variables that people wanted to look over, or claimed "it doesn't really matter" but in the end, the evidence must support the claims equally and unbiased.

That being said, as long as you are completely consistent and transparent with disclosure there may be some merit to this.
 
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