The decibel delima. Long rant, short gig.

[scotch]

Apparently not louder than 70dB at the dinner tables since people were talking across tables without leaning and yelling in each other's ears, having those comfortable conversations at 70dB, at a distance without sonic interference from the music.

The point was that conversations were 70dB, and the band can't play that quiet. That point is wrong, apparently. Cause I just did it last weekend. And the link I posted said conversations were more like 60dB, so apparently, even 60 dB is achievable.

Randy

Man, if you were working with acoustic drums - heck even just your trumpet solo'ed - is going to read louder than 70db at the stage. We all believe you had a succesful gig. Congrats! Seriously! But I'm not convinced the circumstances of your illustrated example, and the op's, are really congruous.

 

[JimiLL]

This bar owners over zealous attitude along with the cops having a zero tolerence policy (cant the cops just give warning?) leaves me to believe that the bar owner prob. told the cops to F off at one time or another, prob over a similar circumstance.

Dont go back.

 

[steveksux]

Man, if you were working with acoustic drums - heck even just your trumpet solo'ed - is going to read louder than 70db at the stage. We all believe you had a succesful gig. Congrats! Seriously! But I'm not convinced the circumstances of your illustrated example, and the op's, are really congruous.

Trumpet was mic'd through the pa, also, to add insult to injury, he likes to run his own effects... Luckily he was channelling Chet Baker instead of Maynard Ferguson that night...

It was actually a fundraiser, some congress critters were there, Police Chief of Dearborn, we were playing during dinner. What they should have hired was a small jazz band, dinner ensemble sort of band. We typically do loud blues bars, biker bars, etc. And we have the equipment capable of easily pulling that off.

So I would think we were probably expected to play even quieter than the OP was, given the type of gig. and the clientele involved. So I would argue that our example was even more extreme from a having to play even quieter standpoint. I usually bring earplugs when I fill in for these guys, the guitar player can peel the paint off the walls... And to further parallel, we had the Chief of Police in attendance, not just cops doing a drive by...

Its quite a coincidence this happened relatively the same time the OP had their experience, and frankly, nobody was more surprised than I was that the guitar player was able to turn down enough. The rest of the guys, I figured were good to go. I had just never heard the guitar player play quiet.

The drummer is very good with dynamics, so I figured he could play quiet when necessary.

Actually, come to think of it, they did have to tell us we were too loud first song, not like we're perfect.... So we turned down, no further problems.

Randy

 

[Dominic D]

I just want to thank you, Randy, for putting a face to your name. Now we can all avoid you if we ever see you.

 

[Classickbass]

Actually, I sure am glad I joined this forum yesterday...I've learned today that all my basses and my amp has knobs on them to control the volume...I've learned sooooo much in one day already...Thanks Mr Obvious, you're a lifesaver....

I have learned a few things today as well:

One, that some towns decibel ordinances are screwy, to say the least.

Two, that trolls exist everywhere on the internet, even talkbass. I did, however, heed all the warnings and not feed it.

Three, learn how to add a troll to an ignore list so I no longer have to look at it.

The world is a better place now.

 

[Dubista]

Don't forget that 70dB needs to be measured from somewhere because sound intensity has an inverse squared relationship with distance. 70dB at the stage is silly but 70dB, 25m away is something else entirely.

 

[Dominic D]

Thank you, Classickbass. I actually wasn't aware that there was an ignore list. I'll be sure to use it.

 

[steveksux]

I just want to thank you, Randy, for putting a face to your name. Now we can all avoid you if we ever see you.

Losing an argument can be a win if you learn something from it.

Or don't. Good luck. Choose wisely.

Randy

 

[Dominic D]

Luckly I can't lose since I'm not part of the argument. I actually agree more with you, but your attitude makes you a completely unlikable person.

 

[steveksux]

Luckly I can't lose since I'm not part of the argument. I actually agree more with you, but your attitude makes you a completely unlikable person.

I always start out reasonable, and only respond in kind to the obnoxious.

Randy

 

[Dominic D]

You may have not realized it, Randy, but you were unusually aggressive from your first response. You are the obnoxious one. I've come to enjoy is forum because there are very specific rules whether written or unwritten that pretty much everyone follows making this a surprising friendly place. Unfortunately there are a few people who for no real reason feel the need to start arguments. Before this goes any further, I'm adding you to the ignore list.

 

[steveksux]

You may have not realized it, Randy, but you were unusually aggressive from your first response. You are the obnoxious one.

Me and the OP had quite a constructive discussion, so apparently not.

Randy

 

[OmnitzGarima]

Yeah, 70db is a joke. That;s the average human conversation level.

Take a look at this chart. Either the club/bar owner is making the 70db thing up, or he's a moron for expecting a band to play at that level.

Invalid Link Removed

For petes' sake, a lawnmower makes more noise! I'm calling 'shenanigans'!

I agree.

 

[steveksux]

Think again. Your response to my post was utterly obnoxious, and all I did was point out a sentence in the OP that appeared to be directly relevant to your argument.

So what was obnoxious about asking you what point you were trying to make? I pointed out why I thought your point was irrelevant, and asked what point you were trying to make in case I missed it?

Direct question is obnoxious now?

Randy

 

[Classickbass]

Thank you, Classickbass. I actually wasn't aware that there was an ignore list. I'll be sure to use it.

You are welcome!

click on the person's username--->view public profile---> in the blue bar under their name on the right hand side it will say Add (name) to your ignore list

 

[steveksux]

That actually brings up another good point...

The idea that the bar owner was rude, so I'm walking out.

90% of the bar owners are Adam Henry's. People in the crowd will stumble their drunk asses up to the stage and berate you. Expect to be disappointed if you have expectations of being treated well.

The ego will cost you work. You walk out because he talked to you harshly, you are the one ending up with a reputation for being temperamental and being unreliable. "They walked out in the middle of a gig" is what the next bar owner will hear.

The same ego that tells you "I'm not going to turn down any further", or "He can't talk to me like that, I'm walking out" needs to be tamed. Learning to de-escalate these situations is pretty handy.

The way to turn that around is to be more professional. Be proactive, come back in a few songs, ask how the volume is. Get it under control, now you look like the adults in the confrontation, talk to him later, when you get paid. Now you can bring up, just let us know about the volume, no need to yell, etc, don't appreciate being talked to like that. And drop it, don't engage if he goes off on a rant. If it bothers you that much, don't book there again. But be the better man. Stick to facts, don't get personal.

Its like in the business world, you must try to avoid burning bridges. Word travels very fast. Bad word travels faster.

You tend to get defensive, get your hackles up. Nothing good will come of that. If he's a dick, doesn't realize he was wrong, is obnoxious, why should you care what he thinks. He is a dick. Be more nervous if he thinks you are birds of a feather.

The best revenge is playing at his competitor and drawing a crowd. That's how you win, not by getting in a pissing contest with an obnoxious bar owner.

Randy

 

[Classickbass]

Wow, this continues to spiral off on tangents.

Randy, the op was crystal clear that the club owner was threatening a $700 fine if the 70db limit was broken. Given the lack of important pertinent details and probable practical impossibility of conforming with the restriction - I would have walked as well. And yes, I'm a full time working professional musician. Haven't been fired from a gig yet (over 15 years or so). There are times that you "make it happen", and times that you "cut your losses". You've got to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Sort of like the discourse in this thread!

I never thought I would see the day when anyone would make a Kenny Rogers quote work but you, sir, did.

 

[IbanezBass69]

Yeah, 70db is a joke. That;s the average human conversation level.

Take a look at this chart. Either the club/bar owner is making the 70db thing up, or he's a moron for expecting a band to play at that level.

Invalid Link Removed

For petes' sake, a lawnmower makes more noise! I'm calling 'shenanigans'!

Wow. Based on that table, there was no way you were going to be quieter without playing acoustically, without drums, and playing softly. To the OP, big joke, never play there again. And, I hope you got paid buddy.

 

[steveksux]

Hey, Scotch, THAT could have been the basis for a good, rational decision, but the OP said they didn't like the ultimatum or the way it was delivered... so they left. So my take on that would be it was ego driven decision, didn't really depend on the potential of the fine.

Are the guys going, hell no, we can't/won't turn down enough, yeah, cut your losses if fines are involved. Maybe I'm fortunate, my main band was getting hassled for volume at one place, we just turned down. If you can count on the other guys to do it, its a better option. We figured they were being unreasonable in their expectations, but met them anyway. Plenty of bands I've been in wouldn't have worked out so well.

Randy

 

[rmkesler]

Wow. Based on that table, there was no way you were going to be quieter without playing acoustically, without drums, and playing softly. To the OP, big joke, never play there again. And, I hope you got paid buddy.

I originally stated that we did not receive any compensation nor did we ask for any. However, one guitarist did get a free club sandwich before we started playing. He reported it was very good. Sorry for that omission.