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The decibel delima. Long rant, short gig.
- Thread starter rmkesler
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At least wasn't a total loss, too bad the rest of you didn't at least get some free food for your trouble... bad situation all around.
Randy
Sorry, I kinda was hasty to post. I read a few posts and said that, and later saw that you were not paid. I feel sorry for you guys, but at least one of you got a sandwich!
You guys could have just unplugged, had the singer whisper the lyrics, and had the drummer sleep in his car during the gig, then you may have hit that low db goal.
okcrum
in your chest
There is a town here with 60 dB daytime and 50 dB nighttime (both A weighted) noise limits. They are basically on the books until the first court challenge.
The ordinance is so absurd they had to write in exceptions for cars and garbage trucks among other things.
The ordinance is so absurd they had to write in exceptions for cars and garbage trucks among other things.
This is SO important, and often *not specified* in ordanances, left to the police to interpret, but is usually at least measured from public land- the sidewalk next to the club, for example. In the old ordnance it was 75 db from 50 ft, based on the volume of a city bus starting up in 1st gear from 50 ft. But recently here in my town (Charlottesville, VA)they dropped the noise limit to 70 db *just for amplified live music* - not for crowd noise from an outside seating area or even from DJ/recorded music! And only in one neighborhood! ANd they didn't specify a distance. Some cops measured from the centerline of the street, most from the sidewalk right next to the club. Then the cranky neighbor still complained, they dropped it to 65 db (the proponents of the ordnance wanted 60 db!!). When it was pointed out that one of the other restaurants in this neighborhood, with extensive outside seating, would generate 80db from the centerline of the street just from the crowd noise of the people eating dinner it didn't make a difference- some contention about the bass and drums carrying farther through the walls of their homes and being more disturbing than the crowd noise. The one club in that neighborhood that did live music went out of business within 2 months. :scowl:
But I agree, the club should have let the band now *before* they came out for the gig, rather than being a pesky little b1tch once they got there to play. Such malarky! And having nice clubs and restaurants in the neighborhood definitely boosted property values because the neighborhood became trendy and popular with young professionals. Of course the complainers were older people who probably didn't even appreciate the higher property values, since it meant higher taxes. Grrr.
for some of you clueless posters go back and read where the OP stated that the cops would take a measurement from 30-40 yards away. This means that onstage the volume could be about a 100 decibels and they would be O.K.
A place I played last year, in Dearborn MI, had an issue with a loud band. We replaced them for the last month or so of the season on the outdoor patio. Their restriction was 100db from what seemed to be about 40 yds. There was a man with a meter standing there for our entire first set and part of the second. We made it under the limit. It was a comfortable volume where everyone in the band could be heard. I can't imagine having to get in under 70db. I don't think it's possible, with acoustic drums.
We did a wedding gig where the venue had the dreaded SPL monitors linked to the power. We tried to keep everything down, but the very first second we played in our sound check, everything cut out. We said to the owner "Sorry, no band tonight. Go and tell your guests that the venue they've booked and paid for for their wedding reception can't host a live band." Two minutes later, we'd hooked up the power to another source that wasn't controlled by the sound level monitors.
I just would NOT play any gig where there's some dick standing there with a meter. If they want silence, we can provide that easily by packing up and going home. No way I'm going to spend my evening being ****ed around by some idiot with an SPL meter.
I just would NOT play any gig where there's some dick standing there with a meter. If they want silence, we can provide that easily by packing up and going home. No way I'm going to spend my evening being ****ed around by some idiot with an SPL meter.
The 70db limit certinly seems arbitrary.
We had a situation like this, and we are a country/folk/Americana band and we don't make a lot of noise. When turning our amps down to whisper volume still didn't do the trick, we shut down our PA and our amps, got out acoustic guitars (our drummer moved to his hand percussion), and we played the entire night at a volume that could not be heard beyond the first row of tables. When customers started to complain, we started serenading individual tables (walking out to them) at $20 a pop. People paid gladly, and many invited us back multiple times. We finished the night... and got paid. The owner spent the evening being told by the customers (NOT by us) what an assclown he was. The club no longer has live music... nor any customers after 8:00 at night....
We had a situation like this, and we are a country/folk/Americana band and we don't make a lot of noise. When turning our amps down to whisper volume still didn't do the trick, we shut down our PA and our amps, got out acoustic guitars (our drummer moved to his hand percussion), and we played the entire night at a volume that could not be heard beyond the first row of tables. When customers started to complain, we started serenading individual tables (walking out to them) at $20 a pop. People paid gladly, and many invited us back multiple times. We finished the night... and got paid. The owner spent the evening being told by the customers (NOT by us) what an assclown he was. The club no longer has live music... nor any customers after 8:00 at night....
slightly OT, but this might be the actual problem.
by playing for free, your band got just the amount of respect it deserved.
it's not that we should only be "in it for the money", but i've found that the band's pay is usually a good barometer for the quality/professionalism of the gig, and for how much fun it is, actually.
refusing to play for bull***t money is a good filter for avoiding bull***t gigs.
I think he meant that they walked without the money after the sound level troubles, not that it was a free gig.
ah.
if that's the case, then i'm afraid i have to agree with randy; a key axiom in any business is, "don't get mad, get the money".
70dB up close is indeed stupid and impossible, but if that's what the clubowner wanted, that's what the band should have done, even if it meant strumming on the electric guitars unplugged while the drummer clicked two salt shakers together
I googled for that and this was the first thing that came up:
Invalid Link Removed
Leverage is the key issue. You can tell the bar owner to pound sand.
After you get paid. (Assuming you don't want to go back)
After you've proven you can pack the place and make him money. Even then, got to be careful, if you get too demanding you'll kick in the same ego driven decisionmaking process on his part, he'll cut off his nose to spite his face.
And for BassyBill... If you have an angry Bridezilla in the wings, you have some leverage with the owner..
Bottom line, don't take it personal, it's a means to an end for you, part of paying dues if you want to do this as a business rather than a hobby.
Given all the threads about pay to play, playing for the door, an actual paying club is getting to be a rare commodity, can't be squandered at nearly any cost, especially since word gets around, you can lose more than one club by taking the satisfying route of confrontation.
Randy
After you get paid. (Assuming you don't want to go back)
After you've proven you can pack the place and make him money. Even then, got to be careful, if you get too demanding you'll kick in the same ego driven decisionmaking process on his part, he'll cut off his nose to spite his face.
And for BassyBill... If you have an angry Bridezilla in the wings, you have some leverage with the owner..
Bottom line, don't take it personal, it's a means to an end for you, part of paying dues if you want to do this as a business rather than a hobby.
Given all the threads about pay to play, playing for the door, an actual paying club is getting to be a rare commodity, can't be squandered at nearly any cost, especially since word gets around, you can lose more than one club by taking the satisfying route of confrontation.
Randy
So this was in Helen? I guess they might be considered in a flight path. Inbounds to ATL from the north go over Toccoa and Rome. Outbounds go over Helen but ins and outs are usually over 9000 before they hit Helen. I doubt anyone can hear them.
Maybe some military routes, but no one can do anything about that.
I would think, with Oktoberfest being a main source of income, they would be extremely tourist/entertainment friendly. Sounds like the locals want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Reminds me of Ellijay (also in the GA hills). About 20 years ago the residents (mostly Atlanta retirees) tried to shut down the little airport because the noise bothered them. They virtually succeeded. All that was left was an unattended runway. Recently the same wealthy folks realized they can't conveniently fly into their vacation homes so they've started bringing the airport back to life.
They're also famous for their apples. So they brilliantly instituted an apple tree tax. Now, this time of year, when people flock to the area to see the fall colors and get Ellijay apples, many of the apples are imported because the orchards cut their trees down. No tax on the imports, just the local trees.
I'm amazed people are assuming the OP is unprofessional because he isn't groveling on his knees before this club owner (hmm, in video?). Maybe some people will do anything to get their $100 bucks at the end of the evening. I guess we should all tack on sux to the end of our user names.
Maybe some military routes, but no one can do anything about that.
I would think, with Oktoberfest being a main source of income, they would be extremely tourist/entertainment friendly. Sounds like the locals want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Reminds me of Ellijay (also in the GA hills). About 20 years ago the residents (mostly Atlanta retirees) tried to shut down the little airport because the noise bothered them. They virtually succeeded. All that was left was an unattended runway. Recently the same wealthy folks realized they can't conveniently fly into their vacation homes so they've started bringing the airport back to life.
They're also famous for their apples. So they brilliantly instituted an apple tree tax. Now, this time of year, when people flock to the area to see the fall colors and get Ellijay apples, many of the apples are imported because the orchards cut their trees down. No tax on the imports, just the local trees.
I'm amazed people are assuming the OP is unprofessional because he isn't groveling on his knees before this club owner (hmm, in video?). Maybe some people will do anything to get their $100 bucks at the end of the evening. I guess we should all tack on sux to the end of our user names.
I've been in a similar position before. Owner kept telling us to put it down, even after adjusting the volume several times. After the third time we played our softest song (we're a alt.rock/grunge/stoner band) and called it quits.
Randy: of course they could've turned down more, but then their music would have suffered from it. Volume is an essential part of your sound, simple as that. If I had to choose between playing our music half-baked and not playing at all ... I wouldn't hesitate for a single second.
Randy: of course they could've turned down more, but then their music would have suffered from it. Volume is an essential part of your sound, simple as that. If I had to choose between playing our music half-baked and not playing at all ... I wouldn't hesitate for a single second.
JoshB
A great man is always willing to be little. -RWE
From: Link Removed
Which I got to from the Helen, GA town homepage...
and
So it looks like you needed to get a sound permit for a gig there. Which should fall on the club owner, not the band.
I agree Randy, there are volume knobs at everyone's disposal, I also agree that you've acted like a troll in this thread. From now on, state your opinion and move on, don't attempt to brow beat people into your way of thinking. One of the nice parts of this forum is all the different opinions and options.
Also, in regards to your rig...a solid state 1500w is one thing, a 300w all tube amp is quite another. Yet another thing we need to take into account in this situation. Oh, and 70dB is almost impossible with a band of that size. I say that as both a bassist, who does know what a volume knob is (I play mostly in churches for crying out loud!!) and as a professional sound engineer. I can hit 70dB by talking to the band loudly. Both in A and C weightings.
Here's hoping that the club owner gets a sound permit next time to avoid the situation.
Which I got to from the Helen, GA town homepage...
and
So it looks like you needed to get a sound permit for a gig there. Which should fall on the club owner, not the band.
I agree Randy, there are volume knobs at everyone's disposal, I also agree that you've acted like a troll in this thread. From now on, state your opinion and move on, don't attempt to brow beat people into your way of thinking. One of the nice parts of this forum is all the different opinions and options.
Also, in regards to your rig...a solid state 1500w is one thing, a 300w all tube amp is quite another. Yet another thing we need to take into account in this situation. Oh, and 70dB is almost impossible with a band of that size. I say that as both a bassist, who does know what a volume knob is (I play mostly in churches for crying out loud!!) and as a professional sound engineer. I can hit 70dB by talking to the band loudly. Both in A and C weightings.
Here's hoping that the club owner gets a sound permit next time to avoid the situation.
I really appreciate you posting the info. I tried googling for it but I guess I should have went to the town's web site. Thanks!
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