The decibel delima. Long rant, short gig.

[scotch]

Randy, yes, it is ridiculous to expect the archetypal bar band to play at 70db (at least anywhere near the 'stage'). Have you ever played a show with acoustic drums?

 

[lowendfriend]

AS someone said, an acoustic act would fail that limit. Owner should not be booking a band.

 

[rmkesler]

To not be so quick to assume That the decibel reading is from the street. Unless its Specified that way in the ordinance, the official can walk right up to the speaker cabinet and take a reading if he likes. That is not fair but...

That's part of it. Everything we know about the ordinance was relayed by the owner.

 

[faulknersj]

Randy, dude, were you at the gig? Because you act like you were. The truth is, you have no idea how hard the drummer was hitting, how loud each of the 3 guitars were,or how loud the bass or vocals were. Why are you acting like you know any of these things? You don't. These guys were asked to put themselves at risk of being fined $700 to play a gig. Seriously, stop raising your hand and being that guy. It's just too much man.

 

[steveksux]

Randy, yes, it is ridiculous to expect the archetypal bar band to play at 70db (at least anywhere near the 'stage'). Have you ever played a show with acoustic drums?

Sure. With acoustic drums, mic'd throught the PA. And a 1500 W bass amp.

Just played a gig with drummer Milton "Heavyfoot" Austin, known for, guess what? With my 1500 w 5 ft tall bass amp. And a guitarist/vocalist usually known for being pretty loud (he was my biggest worry about volume) plus a trumpet player, with keys.

Blues band used to playing upposed to playing loud bars, contracted to play dinner music for the first set. Everything mic'd through a PA.

Using the magic known as "knobs" and "self restraint" on the part of the drummer, we managed to play quiet enough so people could easily hold conversations during dinner.

Randy

 

[scotch]

Sure. With acoustic drums. And a 1500 W bass amp.

Just played a gig with drummer Milton "Heavyfoot" Austin, known for, guess what? With my 1500 w bass amp. And a guitarist/vocalist usually known for being pretty loud (he was my biggest worry about volume) plus a trumpet player, with keys.

Blues band used to playing upposed to playing loud bars, contracted to play dinner music for the first set. Everything mic'd through a PA.

Using the magic known as "knobs" and "self restraint" on the part of the drummer, we managed to play quiet enough so people could easily hold conversations during dinner.

Randy

How many watts is your amp? I don't think I'd read it yet. Just kidding!

Seriously, though, it really feels like you are arguing for arguments sake. The thread isn't about "Just how quiet can my 1500w amp be?", it's a very specific & well explained scenario that it appears you are ignoring.

Cheers.

 

[SBassman]

Using the magic known as "knobs" and "self restraint" ...

 

[Bassdude404]

Sure. With acoustic drums. And a 1500 W bass amp.

Just played a gig with drummer Milton "Heavyfoot" Austin, known for, guess what? With my 1500 w bass amp. And a guitarist/vocalist usually known for being pretty loud (he was my biggest worry about volume) plus a trumpet player, with keys.

Blues band used to playing upposed to playing loud bars, contracted to play dinner music for the first set. Everything mic'd through a PA.

Using the magic known as "knobs" and "self restraint" on the part of the drummer, we managed to play quiet enough so people could easily hold conversations during dinner.

Randy

And we're all happy for you...

Actually, I sure am glad I joined this forum yesterday...I've learned today that all my basses and my amp has knobs on them to control the volume...I've learned sooooo much in one day already...Thanks Mr Obvious, you're a lifesaver....

 

[steveksux]

Here's the amp. K1 crown power amp, 1500W @ 4 ohms, pair of vl-210 cabs (500w power handling each).

Can get stupid loud when I need it to, just turn it down to get whatever volume the customer needs.

Randy

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Sure. With acoustic drums, mic'd throught the PA. And a 1500 W bass amp.

Just played a gig with drummer Milton "Heavyfoot" Austin, known for, guess what? With my 1500 w 5 ft tall bass amp. And a guitarist/vocalist usually known for being pretty loud (he was my biggest worry about volume) plus a trumpet player, with keys.

Blues band used to playing upposed to playing loud bars, contracted to play dinner music for the first set. Everything mic'd through a PA.

Using the magic known as "knobs" and "self restraint" on the part of the drummer, we managed to play quiet enough so people could easily hold conversations during dinner.

Randy

That doesn't actually mean you weren't under 70db, though.

 

[steveksux]

That doesn't actually mean you weren't under 70db, though.

I thought conversations were 70 dB. How do you hold conversations at 70dB comfortably when the band is louder than the conversation?

Randy

 

[faulknersj]

Once again, what direct knowledge do you have to offer regarding the OP's volume levels at the gig mentioned in the OP.What in the world could your band, or your gigs have to do with the gig in question? Why have you felt the need to make this thread about you?

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

I thought conversations were 70 dB. How do you hold conversations at 70dB comfortably when the band is louder than the conversation?

Randy

A conversation is 70dB.

I'm sure you've experienced the "crowded room" phenomenon. You know, the one where the place is buzzing because its full of people all talking to each other?

Even in dining rooms, I'd wager that with everything going on (clinking glass, metal on ceramics, etc.), the crowd at your gig was louder than 70dB.

Which would mean that it was possible that you gentlemen were indeed playing louder than 70dB.

Of course, I wasn't there, but you didn't use a decibel meter, so who's right?

 

[steveksux]

Randy...woo hoo...good for you and 'heavy foot' or whatever...pretty proud of ya guy. This is not your thread...just go post your very own stage volume thread. I'm pretty sure the OP has acheived his original intent with this thread, and THAT was the point. Your condescending tone regarding 'knobs' etc.. Is unwanted.

Funny, the topic IS stage volume. The purpose of the thread IS discussion. The purpose is information, not affirmation.

I would have thought people would be anxious to learn how not to lose paying gigs, as difficult as they are to get, by learning how to turn down. I got $100 because I'm able to turn down, and as a fill in gig, because I did a good job, I'll get called again.

That's valuable information to a working musician.

The point is not bragging about how big my amp is. Its to dispel the myth that you need to "buy smaller equipment" to control your volume. This is crucial if you want to keep working, lots of bars are going to ask you to turn down. Happens al the time. 70dB IS an extreme case. It is not, however, unachievable, impossible, or painful to do. Need to realize that's a condition of employment, and figure out how to deal with it. That's the point of this forum, to pass useful experience and knowledge to other bassists so they can learn from others mistakes instead of repeating them.

Randy

 

[steveksux]

Uh...wow Randy. I have had conversations in mosh pits in front of arena PA's. God only know how many db's that is. Are you serious?

People talking over dinner is something else entirely, its apparently you who enjoys arguing foolish points for no reason other than to be obnoxious. You seriously comparing screaming at someone in a mosh pit to the volume of a casual conversation, in order to make exactly what sort of point? Good lord, man, stop being obtuse.

Randy

 

[steveksux]

A conversation is 70dB.

I'm sure you've experienced the "crowded room" phenomenon. You know, the one where the place is buzzing because its full of people all talking to each other?

Even in dining rooms, I'd wager that with everything going on (clinking glass, metal on ceramics, etc.), the crowd at your gig was louder than 70dB.

Which would mean that it was possible that you gentlemen were indeed playing louder than 70dB.

Of course, I wasn't there, but you didn't use a decibel meter, so who's right?

Apparently not louder than 70dB at the dinner tables since people were talking across tables without leaning and yelling in each other's ears, having those comfortable conversations at 70dB, at a distance without sonic interference from the music.

The point was that conversations were 70dB, and the band can't play that quiet. That point is wrong, apparently. Cause I just did it last weekend. And the link I posted said conversations were more like 60dB, so apparently, even 60 dB is achievable.

Randy

 

[faulknersj]

Cool...have fun Randy. Thanks for the revolutionary info. Audios.

 

[steveksux]

I think the OP and I have had a perfectly fine constructive discussion of what the likely problems were, how to correct them in the future.

Who's derailing the thread by posting crazy myths like it can't be done when bands do it all the time? Like "cant play that quiet, my amp's too big"?

Randy

 

[scotch]

I think in Randy's last couple of posts, he is coming around to the type of constructive tone that helps move a discussion forward. Hyperbole is never a great way to argue in these forums (such as the 'volume knob', '0db' line of argument proved).

Yes, often you have to compromise big-time to make a show happen & hope everybody walks away happy. Given. And turning down is always recommended - but up to a point. Given the detail given at the front of the thread, I think that it's reasonable to conclude that the venue manager had unrealistic expectations from the get-go. Unless, that is, this was an intimate dinner theater or similar engagement (which was not indicated).

 

[steveksux]

Randy, dude, were you at the gig? Because you act like you were. The truth is, you have no idea how hard the drummer was hitting, how loud each of the 3 guitars were,or how loud the bass or vocals were. Why are you acting like you know any of these things? You don't. These guys were asked to put themselves at risk of being fined $700 to play a gig. Seriously, stop raising your hand and being that guy. It's just too much man.

I know what I need to know.
I know how hard the drummer was hitting. Too hard.
I know how loud the guitars were. Too loud.

When the guy signing the paycheck says you're too loud, you're too loud for that gig/venue.

Question, what's the correct dB level for a rock band? You act like there's a magic number. 100dB? 90dB?

Its whatever the owner wants in his club. It can change during the night, quiet at first, loud once the dinner crowd leaves. You don't tell the owner, sorry, you're wrong, we're actually at the correct volume level for a bar band.

That's the music business at the level of weekend warriors.

Randy