The end of tubes??? Thoughts?

[OogieWaWa]

Tubes ending? Of course they are ending. They're always ending. They've been ending for 50 years that I know of, and I'm sure that they'll still continue to be ending for quite some time into the future. The tube is dead, long live the tube!!!

 

[LBS-bass]

Most touring metal bands don't bother with taking amps out on the road anymore at all, let alone tube amps. Everyone uses Kemper/AXFX/Quad Cortex/etc. It cuts down on costs and hassle and makes everything easier for everyone. The audience barely notices a difference, too. As technology keeps improving, the differences will be less and less. Tube amps will definitely keep their place in the studio, but for large shows they're becoming less relevant each year.

Most of the bands I play with, the guitarists run direct from their various pedalboards/racks. I use my class D heads with a cabinet because I feel you need to *feel* the bass as well as hear it (when travelling, most places have a house cab and if any venues don't, I'll hire one out for the show or tour), but that's just me and on a really large stage that becomes irrelevant as well.

So tubes 'dying out' as it were wouldn't really change much at all, at least not for me and the people I work with.

The guitarist I worked with all through the 80's was using either SS amps (early on) or pedals/DI (mid 80's onward) throughout our entire time working together. We were one of the first bands I ever heard of doing a nearly silent-stage set up back then. I say "nearly" because we still had acoustic drums and wedge monitors, but everything ran through the board and the only amplification on stage was my stack, as we deemed the monitors back then a bit too delicate to handle enough low end to keep our stage mix balanced.

I know a lot of other guitarists who still play their old tube gear. Most of them are also playing old-fashioned music; blues and old R&R, rockabilly-based stuff, hair metal, etc. There's certainly a place for that but I'd prefer not to stand next to your Marshall stack if that's ok. Some bands I play with still use all that stuff, and some don't. The ones that don't sound a lot cleaner and are far easier to mix.

The ones I know who are traveling with more variety in their repertoire are mostly using modelers and DIs, and have been for a while.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My first two bass amps and first guitar amp (a tiny 10W affair) were solid-state. I then ended up with a 300W Trace Elliot all solid-state for loud stuff, tube amps for guitar and bass on the side which I gigged. During a hiatus in gigging the tube amps went as I realised I was never going to want to shift them around again. I wouldn't mind a tube amp for guitar and/or bass into an appropriate cab at low volumes in my music room. Maybe I've missed my chance. I do have a couple of preamps with 12AX7s I will need to treat with more care now. Plus I do have three generic 12AX7s in stock. The Princeton would be my holy grail for guitar, though.

The box might have been fuller. but I gave a few away to a TBer. Then I found I had more! I can't complain too much as it was originally a dozen ecc83s and some el34s I got for free 20 years ago.

 

[Grinderman]

If you think this scary, about 90% of the most advanced computer chips are made in Taiwan.

Yeah... scary.

 

[Ric5]

I got my first tubes a few years ago.
(been playing for 34ish years)

I started in the late 60s and back then most amps were tube amps.

 

[Mastermold]

The guitarist I worked with all through the 80's was using either SS amps (early on) or pedals/DI (mid 80's onward) throughout our entire time working together. We were one of the first bands I ever heard of doing a nearly silent-stage set up back then. I say "nearly" because we still had acoustic drums and wedge monitors, but everything ran through the board and the only amplification on stage was my stack, as we deemed the monitors back then a bit too delicate to handle enough low end to keep our stage mix balanced.

I know a lot of other guitarists who still play their old tube gear. Most of them are also playing old-fashioned music; blues and old R&R, rockabilly-based stuff, hair metal, etc. There's certainly a place for that but I'd prefer not to stand next to your Marshall stack if that's ok. Some bands I play with still use all that stuff, and some don't. The ones that don't sound a lot cleaner and are far easier to mix.

The ones I know who are traveling with more variety in their repertoire are mostly using modelers and DIs, and have been for a while.

My guitar players use tube amps exclusively but they are of the smaller variety, everything from old tweed deluxes to boutique and custom tube amps. No Marshall stacks here.

 

[Jeff Scott]

As far as I remember...

Glad to see you are back, and apparently, safe.

Tubes ending? Of course they are ending. They're always ending. They've been ending for 50 years that I know of, and I'm sure that they'll still continue to be ending for quite some time into the future. The tube is dead, long live the tube!!!

Replace tube with GC.

 

[seamonkey]

If you think this scary, about 90% of the most advanced computer chips are made in Taiwan.

Yeah... scary.

The US needs to have that badge.

 

[Koshchei]

Are the Blues Lawyers the same dudes buying all those relic'd guitars?

Yes, as long as they cost as much as a car and are part of a limited run.

 

[Koshchei]

As far as I remember from my days in the field of electronics 40 years ago, tubes manufacturing is not that hi-tech. The technology is actually a century old. Probably in a couple of months we'll see a lot of small independent manufacturers of tubes in US and elsewhere.

Glad you're safe! My brother-in-law was narrowly missed by the missile strike in Vinnytsia the other day. Scorched, but none the worse for wear

Slava Ukraini!

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

Slava Ukraini!

Geroyam slava!

 

[deff]

The US needs to have that badge.

Right except that TSMC has been putting plants in the US and they are not doing anywhere near as well as they might have hoped. I'm not sure if that is a badge of honor for the US or an indictment. Needless to say, there's a decent amount of good reading on the web about the #1 chip maker in the world and their US endeavors. But for the longest time Intel most certainly had the node advantage worldwide and were if anything holding back to falsely prop up other makers so they didn't have a complete monopoly. That is no longer the case.

 

[NeonVomit]

This is the 21st century. If Space-X can sling a rocket into space every 45 minutes then I think someone can figure out how to mass produce vacuum tubes. Hell, the Air Force still flies C-130s, a 1950's plane that keeps getting updated.

Yeah they're getting there after how many billions in investment, for a gigantic industry like space travel and exploration. I don't think anyone will dump millions into setting up a new facility to please a niche group of people who want old-fashioned amplifiers Investors need to see a return and they likely won't get it. Think of how few musicians there are compared to the general population, and then think of the minority faction of that who want to use tubes. It's a dying technology, yo.

 

[baxter_x]

As long as Gene Simmons never said it's the end of tube amps, then it's not.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Yeah they're getting there after how many billions in investment, for a gigantic industry like space travel and exploration. I don't think anyone will dump millions into setting up a new facility to please a niche group of people who want old-fashioned amplifiers Investors need to see a return and they likely won't get it. Think of how few musicians there are compared to the general population, and then think of the minority faction of that who want to use tubes. It's a dying technology, yo.

There's quite a bit of money in music, even guitar amps. I think you could add 25% to the cost of tube amps now and people would still buy them. But in terms of a return, a company would want to see enough of a return for long enough to pay for the factory set up. So it might be that 25% on tube amps might not be enough. Where the price point would need to be, I don't know. At what point do all the sub-$500 amps go Nutube or similar?

Anyway, I am off to buy up all the (a) old tubes (b) old Award-Session amps to add to the 5 preamps I have.

 

[JakobT]

RHX reports that the situation has been resolved, at least for now:

Tung-Sol 5881 Power Tube | 5881 TUNGSOL | Electro-Harmonix

 

[Jeff Scott]

RHX reports that the situation has been resolved, at least for now:

Tung-Sol 5881 Power Tube | 5881 TUNGSOL | Electro-Harmonix

I am glad to see that EHX is forthright, upfront, and honest on all of this.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I don't know if this has been posted here, or if it's even true, but I just read elsewhere that there are no Chinese tubes being made as the factory burned down a few years ago. Can anybody verify this?

 

[gln1955]

Yeah they're getting there after how many billions in investment, for a gigantic industry like space travel and exploration. I don't think anyone will dump millions into setting up a new facility to please a niche group of people who want old-fashioned amplifiers Investors need to see a return and they likely won't get it. Think of how few musicians there are compared to the general population, and then think of the minority faction of that who want to use tubes. It's a dying technology, yo.

This exactly. Investors want to know where the industry is going over then next 10-20 years. Tubes are a niche now and will be a smaller and smaller niche as time goes on. There's no future in building a tube factory unless maybe you make boutique $1000 tubes.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I don't know if this has been posted here, or if it's even true, but I just read elsewhere that there are no Chinese tubes being made as the factory burned down a few years ago. Can anybody verify this?

Shuguang apparently had a fire in 2019 and relocated. There have been different rumors on the new facility, either it was smaller and not producing the same quantity or it was delayed/slowed in production due to covid. It is true that the major rebranding vendors have not been receiving tubes though. Ruby/Magic parts has a statement on their website saying they did not expect new tubes in 2021.

But there are also rumors about Psvane and Linlai, among other Chinese factories, picking up the slack on some of this production and bringing new product lines onboard following the downsizing/relocation of Shuguang. Someone more connected to the industry could probably shed more light on whether these factories can start production of MI-type tubes in any appreciable manner, but I wouldn’t count out Chinese production yet.

Here the statement from Ruby from June 2021
Magic Parts
“There will be no freshly made tubes coming out of China within this year. We recommend you to plan your order ahead of time to avoid shortage”