The Fifths Tuning Club

[khutch]

I have a short scale six with a high B and I have had no trouble with the B string. So, if you want to tune a seven string in fifths you might want to consider a fanned fret bass since the shorter scale on the high strings will keep the tension and gauges reasonable.

Don't ask me where to find an affordable fanned fret seven string!

 

[pklima]

What string options would there be for a Steinberger Spirit to be tuned CGDA? I'm kinda thinking about picking up one of those guitar/bass doublenecks, but not sure how its stringing works - does it need some special double ball end strings?

 

[Drgonzonm]

What string options would there be for a Steinberger Spirit to be tuned CGDA? I'm kinda thinking about picking up one of those guitar/bass doublenecks, but not sure how its stringing works - does it need some special double ball end strings?

It's my understanding the SS comes in 5 string so replace E with a B, then tight on the B,, loose on the A, D's ok, tight on the G, might need the nut filed

 

[pklima]

So, no chance of being able to reuse that ollllllllld set of flatwounds I took off another bass years ago?

 

[ixlramp]

Yes, you can buy a string adapter that allows you to use any single ball end string. You can find them on Ebay or at Link Removed
Well worth it for more choice and cheaper strings, especially when using alternative tunings where you need a larger choice of gauges and are building sets from single strings.

 

[ixlramp]

Anyone out there with a seven string bass tuned in fifths?
Is this possible?
This is just a thought experiment.

Not me, but it is possible, just keep in mind the highest practical tuning on 34" is D4 using a .008 or .009 and keep the top string below that.
So GDAEBF#C# (G below standard B, D below standard E, standard A etc.) would be fine.

The issues were with the high B string. Gossamer light and I kept snapping them. Going larger so they didn't break meant too much tension

The snapping was your own fault, playing too hard maybe? That B is practical and is below the D4 limit.

 

[ixlramp]

I'm getting a bunch of strings for my normal six string guitar (C to B low to high hopefully)

That will be difficult, even A4 is near impossible with most plain strings. I suggest the top string is G4 or lower, that tends to be the practical limit without using expensive specialist strings.

implies that the high B has been "impractical until recently". Maybe that means you will find a high B string that will work.

Fripp ordered some CGDAEB sets from Octave4Plus to hand out to crafty guitarists to try, the top B4 is an expensive and special string.

 

[ixlramp]

but I also have a 5 string I'm considering turning into a sort of perfect fifths baritone guitar thing. Starting from C2 and going to E4

Good idea, but D4 is the highest practical tuning on 34" using a .008 or .009.

Have any idea if a guitar string will have enough length?

Many guitar strings are long enough to reach the tuner post closest to the nut, on a bass, as long as you top-load in the bridge. So you can use guitar strings for the top string, thread a detached bass ball end onto the string to make the ball end the right size.
Or you can use D'Addario 'Loop end' plain steel strings, which are extremely long, and fit your own improvised ball end (i use either 5mm PCB spacer sleeves or very short grub screws).

 

[jharms80439]

Not me, but it is possible, just keep in mind the highest practical tuning on 34" is D4 using a .008 or .009 and keep the top string below that.
So GDAEBF#C# (G below standard B, D below standard E, standard A etc.) would be fine.

The snapping was your own fault, playing too hard maybe? That B is practical and is below the D4 limit.

Yes, it is/was absolutely my fault. I’m coming from an upright and I know that I’m still a bit heavy handed on BG.

John

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

I’ve just set up my fretless jazz bass in CGDA tuning with D’Addario Chrome flats (0.132, .90, .60, .40). I did this primarily to work on some cello music, but am open to seeing where it takes me.

 

[khutch]

Welcome to the club! Whether your visit is short or long I hope you find it useful.

Three years ago I got a Squire VI on a whim and while I have not played it extensively it has gradually been converting me to short scale. This fall I've picked up a couple of used shorties from Guitar Center. One is an Ibanez SRC6 which is a fine VI but since I already have the Squier I removed a string from it and now have a most excellent short scale replacement for my CGDAE SR605.

The other is a Squier 51 which certainly is not an exact replica but which does resemble a 51 Precision. Except that it has six strings. And a 25.5 inch scale. I've removed two strings from that. Given the very short scale I decided to tune it GDAE although FCGD is also a possibility. For now I am avoiding the need to learn an F string although going a step lower could be an advantage.

I suppose I will put one or both of my 34s up for sale. I will try to work with my Reggie Hamilton capoed on the second fret for a while to see if I can live with that. My "SRC5" makes it easy to part with the SR605 but it would be much harder to let go of the Reggie.

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Shanannigan]

Hoping to join this club in a week or so. I've decided to try 5ths tuning on my 6 string ABG.

I use nylon core strings on my ABG because I find steel core strings to be too harsh for acoustic. Finding classical nylon core strings to fit a 34" bass was a pain enough in itself (tuned EADGCF). Now I've been on the adventure of procuring nylon core strings that could be tuned in 5ths.. I don't know why I do this to myself.

I was able to find two sources of silver plated nylon core strings that are long enough, and that may be able to achieve the tuning, they are essentially strings intended for lutes, and other historical instruments. The two options I was able to locate are from Invalid Link Removed and from Gamut Strings. Nylon strings are typically much lighter gauge, for instance a standard tuned E on my bass currently is only a .068. I've ordered a variety of potential gauges from both companies.

Depending on how the strings work out, I'm aiming at Bb0 F1 C2 G2 D3 A3 so that I can have cello tuning on the top four strings. I'm skeptical that the heaviest string I could find will work for the Bb0 however, so if it is too slack I will try C1 G1 D2 A2 E3 B3.

 

[Avs]

I start to try it today! First thing after getting up in the morning is changing strings!

After 12 hours I change back to Kerly flatwound 105 on C and 45 on A for better tone, for now.
Definitily need to find a more proper C, currently it's not as tight as I prefer, and also could use a lighter A.
It's great fun to explore this tuning!

 

[Shanannigan]

While I'm waiting for my strings to arrive I have tried tuning my top 4 strings in fifths to explore. I'm honestly blown away by the harmonic possibilities that I've found with this tuning already.

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

I’ve been working on Bach Cello Suite #1 with my fretless jazz tuned in 5ths for a couple of weeks now and have a couple of preliminary observations. I’m using open strings more than I’d anticipated, at least with my current fingering choices. I also notice that there is a much greater difference in the timbre of notes played in different areas of the neck than when it was tuned in 4th. I struggle with some long jumps or stretches to reach major third and octave intervals. I’m not sure and don’t have a good source for how these are typically fingered on the cello, so any suggestions along those lines would be helpful, I’m sure.

 

[Shanannigan]

I came across a great source for scales, arpeggios, and chord patterns in 5ths tuning which can be downloaded Here

It was compiled by this guitarist on youtube

 

[~M.o.M~]

I’ve been working on Bach Cello Suite #1 with my fretless jazz tuned in 5ths for a couple of weeks now and have a couple of preliminary observations. I’m using open strings more than I’d anticipated, at least with my current fingering choices. I also notice that there is a much greater difference in the timbre of notes played in different areas of the neck than when it was tuned in 4th. I struggle with some long jumps or stretches to reach major third and octave intervals. I’m not sure and don’t have a good source for how these are typically fingered on the cello, so any suggestions along those lines would be helpful, I’m sure.

A good guide for that Cello Suite would be the following performance by Jannick Top:



The usage of open strings on the Cello Suite seems normal to me. Since it was written for the cello, it's quite rational to take advantage of the instrument's tuning.

Regarding the timbre of notes, I find your observation pretty accurate. With the right point of view, it can be taken as an advantage since you are given more timbre qualities for a specific note. But for other players, having to "hunt" specific positions on the fretboard might seem like a hassle.

Now, when it comes to long jumps and stretches, I think it's one of those things that can't really be avoided. Jumps will become easier and will "flow" better with practice. For stretches, I find that I only have to use them in chords. For anything else, I try reaching the notes using my thumb as a pivot or do a quick jump to a more relaxing position, especially if there's a repeating pattern. An example of that would be playing the arpeggio of a major chord; totally more difficult if you play the root and the 3rd on the same string, but a breeze if you play the root on one string and the 3rd and the 5th on the next.

If you have any more questions, or if you need me to elaborate on anything I've written above, feel free to ask!

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

A good guide for that Cello Suite would be the following performance by Jannick Top:
...
If you have any more questions, or if you need me to elaborate on anything I've written above, feel free to ask!

Thanks so much for this video of Jannick Top’s performance. I especially like that he plays this an octave down and in a range that, in my opinion, best suits the bass and lets the music breath. It’s also interesting to hear him use the open G D and A in the early measures. I’d used the open G, but not letting it ring because I preferred the sound of the fretted D on the same string. After listening to Jannick, I’m going to go back and play around more with the open strings.

Thanks also for your other observations. After a few more days of experimenting, I’ve come to very similar conclusions about the diversity of tones that can be achieved.

I don’t think I will go back and relearn any of the Motown or rock tunes in my repertoire, but my four string fretless jazz, which had been the most neglected instrumented in my collection, now feels like the most versatile and I can well imagine turning to it to experiment with improvising walking jazz lines.

 

[Shanannigan]

I am almost all set up at this point. I have 5 strings switched out with strings that feel and sound right for C-b on my 6 string ABG. I'm still hunting the high b though. Since I'm sticking with nylon strings it's a bit more of a hassle. The La Bella lute strings worked for C through E, but I could not manage the high b going as light as .019. It may be because they were wound.

I'm still waiting on another bunch of strings from Gamut Strings, but there seems to be an issue with USPS. The other option that I'm considering is using fluorocarbon fishing line. I've seen that a lot of classical guitarists, banjo, and mandolin players opt for this for plain strings, and a lot of them claim that it sounds and feels great.

After a couple weeks sticking with fifths tuning I've only grown to like it more. My ABG resonates a lot more, every note sounds fuller and more natural. The map of the fingerboard is slowly piecing itself together in my head, not taking nearly as long as I expected it would.

 

[Shanannigan]

Quick update.

I went with the fishing line idea for the high B, and it worked! I used Seaguar Premiere 40lb (.022). It sounds and feels fantastic. Bonus is if I ever break it I have 25 yards of line to replace it.