The Fifths Tuning Club

[Kenichi Jono]

Thanks @khutch.

This may be my third time trying this tuning out, but I have different musical goals now which are playing in this new tuning’s favour.

I used to focus on playing rock/metal songs made by bassists tubing in 4ths and I already struggled to play these songs, so tuning in 5ths felt like an unnecessary hurdle for me.

However, now I am striving to play classical melodies, as well as compose my own songs, and I’m really liking the 5th tuning this time around.

For the last few weeks I've been warming up with an arpeggio figure for Pachelbel's "Canon in D" (the figure is 1-5-8-10 of each chord, and the chords range from the octave of the key down to the root) and now instead of going across 4 strings to hit this arpeggio and sliding up and down the neck to play it, I can play this same arpeggio on 3 strings and have a bit more flexibility of choosing which string to start on for a different tone or different shifting.

I’ve also been able to find some classical scores for entry level cellists and will work on these, as well as transposing some of my favourite songs to play to the new tuning, just in case I get the itch to go back to 4ths (it will also help me understand the new mapping of the fingerboard).

I’m not going to lie, this is making me want to now get a fretless more than anything else, but I can’t swing that right now and I’m also debating getting a digital piano, but I’ll figure that out later.

I tune by 5 string to D-A-E-B-F#, this allowed me to transition easier from fourth tuning to fifth, as anything on A string is the same.

 

[Shanannigan]

As of today, I've converted all of my basses to 5ths tuning. My acoustic and electric are both CGDAEB, and my fretless is FCGDAE.

 

[jharms80439]

Shanannigan,

Congrats! 5ths tuning is an outstanding way to rethink bass. I've been in and out of 5ths tuning for many years - but the last 3 years or so, I've been only in 5ths and I'm now quite comfy with it. Know that it was work to get there though.

IMHO, 5ths provides a much better tone on my acoustic upright (sound opened up even more after about a year or so in 5ths) and volume wise it's now a canon. In 4ths, I always had 6 & 7 string basses for the range - tuning in 5ths, I'm back to 4 stringers only.

FWIW, I too did both a 6 and 7 string in 5ths for a bit. Wasn't a fan of the timbre or the extra range and ultimately sold them off and kept all the 4 strings. I've considered going to a 5 string in 5ths but I now rarely venture that much above thumb position on upright and the ~18th fret of the A string on my electrics.

Hope it works out for what you play!

John

 

[Matthew_84]

Anyone have one bass in 5ths and one in 4ths? And if so, how is the transition between the two?

I really like the idea of 5ths but keep giving up as I’m just so used to 4ths. My problem in the past is that I didn’t give the time to learn new (or relearn old material) in 5ths, and I’d just revert back to 4ths so I can just the songs I know easier.

I’ve recently given more time to playing and while my current bass is a 4 tuned in 4ths to DGCF, I just ordered a fretless 5. I was originally going to tune the fretless 5 to D-G-C-F-Bb, an octave above my fretted, but now, I’m really liking the idea of tuning it to CGDAE (with a low C) instead.

After this revelation, I thought about leaving my fretted in DGCF so I can use it to play the heavier rock stuff I play, but use the fretless in CGDAE to learn the more classical type stuff I’m starting to learn.

Both instruments are 34” scale if it means anything. Also, the fretless is about a 4 month wait, so I’d likely switch the fretted to CGDA for now to force myself to get used to it to help in the fingering to help prepare for the fretless. Once comfortable with the fretless and 5ths tuning, then I’d consider switching the fretted back to 4ths.

 

[jharms80439]

Matthew_84,

For my (often tired old) brain, I couldn't do it (i.e. regularly playing out with two basses one in 4ths & the other in 5ths), but there are those that can and do.

Dennis Masuzzo (who wrote a book on fifths tuning on bass - "Playing The Double Bass Tuned in Fifths") is a resource for you. If memory serves, he tunes his basses in 5ths and teaches students tuned in 4ths - and plays both equally well. Also, if you go to Youtube and look up Tomoya Aomori, he plays both 4ths and 5ths on acoustic upright with a bow (Arco) - so it "can" be done.

For me, after playing in 5ths for several years, I can still go into any Music Store, pick up a bass from the rack - and play a tune that is still in muscle memory. However, learning new songs in 4ths, while regularly playing a 5ths tuned bass, wouldn't be a new trick for an old dog that I'd NOT want to attempt - but that's me...

Your brain may be better, faster and younger than mine.

Make sense?

John

 

[pklima]

Anyone have one bass in 5ths and one in 4ths? And if so, how is the transition between the two?

I used to have a doubleneck. Eventually I just played everything in fifths, and used the 4ths neck for hanging small stuffed animals at gigs.

So, my experience is that trying to switch back and forth is kind of awkward.

 

[Matthew_84]

Thanks guys! I may just tune both to CGDA (I’ll try out the fretted in 4ths one day but not until I’m okay on the fretless).

It’s funny... I tried 5ths on my fretted a couple of times and am so-so about it, but for some reason, I like the idea of playing in 5ths on a fretless a lot more.

Which is odd because the extra shifting up and down the neck should be harder on a fretless - perhaps I just like the challenge, or am getting influenced by cello music.

I do appreciate you posting those resources @jharms80439. I’ll look into those.

 

[Kenichi Jono]

Hi.
As I mentioned before I was tuning my bass to D-A-E-B-F#, but now I am getting use to playing in 5th, I am going to change my tuning to CGDAE. I think this will actually be more useful that I can go down to low-C.

I just arranged with the strings at hand.
B string -> C
A string -> G
D string ->D
piccolo D string ->A
piccolo G string -> E

Do you have any suggestions on which string to use, especially for higher two strings?

 

[Shanannigan]

I have been using other strings that I had around on my electrics, but they haven't felt right. So I just ordered some Kalium strings for the same tuning, they seem to be suggested a lot for custom tunings. I'll update whether I got the gauges right or not, but for those 5 strings I ordered
C -.124
G-.079
D-.053
A.033
and for the E .020p and .019p to test both.

They have a tension chart on their website that helps determine gauge.

 

[jharms80439]

Hi.
As I mentioned before I was tuning my bass to D-A-E-B-F#, but now I am getting use to playing in 5th, I am going to change my tuning to CGDAE. I think this will actually be more useful that I can go down to low-C.

I just arranged with the strings at hand.
B string -> C
A string -> G
D string ->D
piccolo D string ->A
piccolo G string -> E

Do you have any suggestions on which string to use, especially for higher two strings?

@Shanannigan beat me to it - I forgot I was writing this earlier today but hadn't posted i yet...

Kalium's tension calculator for scale is located in the FAQ.

Easy formula for string gauge is (diameter / 2) x 3 = optimal diameter of the the next larger string; or (diameter / 3) x 2 = optimal diameter of the the next smaller string.

Personally, I start with what tension I like then go from there - i.e. 0.125, 0.135 or 0.145 for the low C then order the closest Kalium string gauge to the calculated gauge.

If you're going as a 6'er, it'd be:

C 0.125
G 0.083
D 0.056
A 0.037
E 0.025
B 0.016

or

C 0.135
G 0.090
D 0.060
A 0.040
E 0.027
B 0.018

or

C 0.145
G 0.097
D 0.064
A 0.043
E 0.029
B 0.019

Make sense?

FWIW, do keep an eye on the tension though. The cool thing about ordering custom Kalium strings, you can order ascending, descending or balanced tension. Usually I'm more of a descending tension kind of player - i.e. tightest on the C and descending tension on each higher string. Some like tight A's or D's, I like tight C's.

John

 

[Shanannigan]

I put the Kalium strings on my basses last night, and I like the gauges that I went with. I ended up going with the 19p for the E because 20p felt a bit too tense for my tastes. Since mine are 6ers I also have a high B on one (.13p), and a low F on the other (.190)

 

[Matthew_84]

I put the Kalium strings on my basses last night, and I like the gauges that I went with. I ended up going with the 19p for the E because 20p felt a bit too tense for my tastes. Since mine are 6ers I also have a high B on one (.13p), and a low F on the other (.190)

Interesting. I’m debating doing FCGD on my fretted 4 and GDAEB on my fretless 5.

Did you go with the Hybrids or the Steels?

Also, how do they feel? I was thinking of using on Hybrids on the fretless with a raw panga panga (similar to Wenge) board, but am worried about them chewing it up... it seems panga panga is even softer than rosewood.

 

[Shanannigan]

I went with the Hybrids because I've always preferred the sound and feel of nickel. They feel good, I'm happy with the balance of the lower strings so far. I might end up going lower gauge for the higher strings because I think I might like to get a more supple tension to allow bending in the style that guitarists do. I've only had them for a night though, so I need to spend more time to get a feel for what I like and don't like.

 

[Perragrande]

Hi there! I am a new member. I have a Fender J bass tuned like a cello. My first instrument was piano. My second instrument was violin. Sometime in high school I tried to teach myself guitar and I just could not think in fourths. I have no problem with shifting because you shift a lot on the violin. I can read bass clef because of my piano background. It works for me.

 

[khutch]

Welcome to the club! People coming to bass guitar from the fifths tuned members of the violin family will often find that they prefer that tuning for their bass. Often, but not always, and it goes both ways since some of us who grew up on fourths tuned basses find that we prefer fifths. To each his/her own, it is great to have choices!

 

[Perragrande]

It makes me feel good to know that I'm not some weirdo using fifths!

 

[demos]

Hi All,

I am new here, but I have read through the entire "Fifths Tuning" thread. I am not a bass player, but a tenor banjo / tenor guitar player (mine are tuned in fifths - C3, G3, D4, A4). I have always wanted to learn the bass and when I found out that basses (guitars and double) can be tuned in fifths, I became very motivated to get started. Any advice you can give me regarding what type of bass guitar to buy and string selection would be appreciated. I was looking at short scale basses, but it looks like the string selection for those guitars is limited. I also like the headless basses like the Steinberger, but I worry that this kind of guitar will not accommodate the thicker C string need for CGDA tuning. My price range for the guitar would be between $200 and $600.

Thanks!

 

[pklima]

Don't know about headless, but I know some here have done the 30" scale thing, and found strings that worked.

 

[Perragrande]

Demos, I have a Fender J-Bass made in Mexico. My husband figured out what gauge strings to put on it for CGDA. I'll ask him. Your fifths tuning is the same notes as the viola.

 

[kirkdickinson]

Hi All,

I am new here, but I have read through the entire "Fifths Tuning" thread. I am not a bass player, but a tenor banjo / tenor guitar player (mine are tuned in fifths - C3, G3, D4, A4). I have always wanted to learn the bass and when I found out that basses (guitars and double) can be tuned in fifths, I became very motivated to get started. Any advice you can give me regarding what type of bass guitar to buy and string selection would be appreciated. I was looking at short scale basses, but it looks like the string selection for those guitars is limited. I also like the headless basses like the Steinberger, but I worry that this kind of guitar will not accommodate the thicker C string need for CGDA tuning. My price range for the guitar would be between $200 and $600.

Thanks!

I have a bass with 5ths tuning. A Frankenfender Jazz/Precision fretless. I keep it in 5ths to play with.

I got my strings from Kallium.

I used their tension chart. Shooting for 37 lbs, I ordered a set:

C .124 36.9 lbs
G .082 37.2 lbs
D .055 37.7 lbs
A .035 36.1 lbs

For a close to 40 lb tension, I could have ordered:
C .130 40.4 lbs
G .086 40.7 lbs
D .057 40.4 lbs
A .037 40 lbs

I like the strings and the tension. Still am playing 4ths though.