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The Fifths Tuning Club

Is anyone willing to share their experience with using 5ths tuning for conventional gigs?

I'm pretty much converted fully at this point. I switched my acoustic tuning to BbFCGDA so that I could have the cello tuning. I'm also switching my 6 string fretless to fifths now, I'm going with FCGDAE. I still have my fretted 6 string tuned in standard, and for the time being, I'm keeping it that way for gigs.
 
I don't know that my "gigging" experience is typical enough to be of use to you. The only place I play outside of my home is in a church band. It's not pop music that we play although much of what we play is pop influenced. The rest of what we play is influenced by nearly every other genre of music. Plus, I am not a highly skilled bassist, by any means. Given that I find the tuning to be quite flexible and capable of doing everything I need to do, limited only by my skill. If you really need to cover a classic bass line that was written by a highly skilled bassist who tuned in fourths and performed it at the highest speed he/she was capable of then you might need to tune in fourths. If not you can find plenty of ways to write excellent bass lines that will sound fresh because you won't do things quite the same way someone who tunes in fourths (ie, almost everyone else!) would.
 
I've never really had problems except for one gig on DB where the D-string broke, and I had to switch between the D and A a lot. That led to cramps. But I don't play guitar rock type stuff, where having an open E string would be important.
 
Hey guys,
First time poster to this amazing thread. Had a question. I've dabbled in CGDA a few years ago on myBG, because I used to play cello as a kid. I found it great, and so much easier to read music. I went back to standard when I started playing in bands for church and camps. Lately I've been wanting to experiment with slap bass, even ordered a copy of Oppenheim's 'Slap it', but feel torn because I also want to get back into playing in fifths. My question is, is it possible to play slap bass in fifths? I'd imagine it's harder, especially when thinking of shapes based around octaves.

What do you guys think?
 
Hey guys,
First time poster to this amazing thread. Had a question. I've dabbled in CGDA a few years ago on myBG, because I used to play cello as a kid. I found it great, and so much easier to read music. I went back to standard when I started playing in bands for church and camps. Lately I've been wanting to experiment with slap bass, even ordered a copy of Oppenheim's 'Slap it', but feel torn because I also want to get back into playing in fifths. My question is, is it possible to play slap bass in fifths? I'd imagine it's harder, especially when thinking of shapes based around octaves.

What do you guys think?

I actually prefer the new octave fingering in fifths! I found it to be much easier than the octave fingering in fourths
 
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I actually prefer the new octave fingering in fifths! I found it to be much easier than the octave fingering in fourths

You've really peaked my interest man, why would you say it's easier? I know if your tuned to CGDA, you can't slap and pop a low to high C, right? Unless you pop it on the G string.

You answered my initial question though, so thanks. Might try learning slap bass entirely in fifths, so there isn't a transitional weirdness.
 
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You've really peaked my interest man, why would you say it's easier? I know if your tuned to CGDA, you can't slap and pop a low to high C, right? Unless you pop it on the G string.

You answered my initial question though, so thanks. Might try learning slap bass entirely in fifths, so there isn't a transitional weirdness.

I wouldn't know, as I never slapped lower than E! That's a good questiom
 
My question is, is it possible to play slap bass in fifths?

Very much so! I have included some examples on this YouTube video I've posted here before. I hope you don't mind the dead strings!



I know if your tuned to CGDA, you can't slap and pop a low to high C, right? Unless you pop it on the G string.

Quite correct. You shouldn't have a problem when popping the G string. I personally do it pretty frequently.

Since you'd like to study Oppenheim's "Slap It", feel free to post some questions here if you have any problems converting the exercises to Fifths. It should be more important to feel the patterns that these exercises present to you, rather than trying to play them note by note in what would often be an awkward position in Fifths tuning.
 
Ever time I read this thread, I want to try CGDA tuning again...

Question for you guys, while there's definitely some more prog rock/metal lines I still want to learn, I also want to focus on playing a lot more melodically. I currently have some classic video game and music soundtracks I want to learn to play the melodies for, as well as to play along to some classical music, and I don't necessarily mean the cello or violin, but all kinds of classical instruments, and mainly focus on the melodies.

I also want to get in composing some instrumental prog rock-ish songs (King Crimson would be a big influence here, but I also want to be a bit more melodic and sound a little more "classical", perhaps like ELP but with a darker feel).

I will use DAWs to create backing tracks and sequence the drums, strings, and other instruments, but will record my bass lines along to them. For my basslines, I am aiming to play more like a counterpoint voice to the melody than just holding down the roots. I do want to hold down the rhythm/groove, of course, but I would like to play fairly melodically.

Do I sound like a good candidate for CGDA tuning, or am I going struggle with this in tuning for my goals in the long term?
 
I've recently gotten some short scale basses specifically to make the reach to those thirds more like a cello's and it is working well for me. I've also got a Stratocaster variant (a Squire '51) that looks vaguely like a first generation Precision and which I've converted to a four string GDAE bass that of course has an even easier reach to thirds. Fender made a 27 inch baritone Telecaster for a while that would make an excellent conversion platform for any cellists out there.
 
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Feel like I've asked this before, but what's the best way to get comfortable with 5th tuning when you have a long history of playing in 4ths?

Right now I'm just running scales from the lowest C up to the highest A, while reciting the note names (A#, etc).

Also, I have another question about fingering. For a natural major scale, I've been doing Index on the root, Middle on the M2, Ring on the M3, Pinky on the P4, Index on the P5 (string above the root, same fret), Middle on the M6, Ring on the M7, and Pinky on the Octave. When I've played some simple melodies that fall within the major scale, I'm following these fingerings even if I'm skipping notes and strings.

I'm curious if you guys think this will help build a good foundation, or bad habits?
 
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Feel like I've asked this before, but what's the best way to get comfortable with 5th tuning when you have a long history of playing in 4ths?

As you know, an instrument tuned in 5ths is a completely different creature than one tuned in 4ths. Explore the possibilities the 5ths tuning offers. Enjoy the instrument according to its nature. Practice with the 5ths tuning on its own terms. Forget about 4ths tuning when practicing/playing the 5ths tuned bass. Remember, the 4ths tuned bass is a different instrument entirely. Do this and you will save yourself a world of frustration. You are learning a new instrument in 5ths.
 
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Feel like I've asked this before, but what's the best way to get comfortable with 5th tuning when you have a long history of playing in 4ths?

Start transposing material you already know to the new tuning. This way you will learn how the common phrases that you've learned in fourths work now in fifths. Furthermore, you'll have additional motivation to stay in the new tuning, rather than change between them every now and then.

If you need help with finding the best fingerings for your material, I would be delighted assist you (and everyone else interested, of course)!

Also, I have another question about fingering. For a natural major scale, I've been doing Index on the root, Middle on the M2, Ring on the M3, Pinky on the P4, Index on the P5 (string above the root, same fret), Middle on the M6, Ring on the M7, and Pinky on the Octave. When I've played some simple melodies that fall within the major scale, I'm following these fingerings even if I'm skipping notes and strings.

I'm curious if you guys think this will help build a good foundation, or bad habits?

Well, I'll answer from my own experience of playing in this tuning exclusively for the last 7 years. Do take everything with a grain of salt, since what works for me shouldn't work for everyone, but I believe it's a good start.

My primary goal when working fingerings in Fifths Tuning (or any tuning in general) is to play the material in the easiest and the nicest-sounding way possible. That means a few things:
  • I try to avoid awkward stretches on my fretting hand. This leads me to usually use the 1st, 2nd and 4th finger on the upper (more bass) region of the fretboard and to introduce the 3rd finger around the 7th fret.
  • I try to avoid shifting vertically frequently. The way I see it, my fretting hand has easy access on five (half-step) notes per string, without the need to shift. Only when I need to reach a note out of that region do I shift. E.g. I'm fretting a note with my 1st finger and want to reach its octave on the next string.
  • If I have to shift, I make sure that I shift to a position that avoids further shifting later. Sometimes, you may need to look even more ahead into the material, since a shift that looked convenient at the time may create a very inconvenient leap to the next series of notes, so make sure you have a linearity in your shifts, if that makes sense.
  • Last but not least, make sure that everything you play sounds the best it could on your instrument. This means that, sometimes, a passage that you currently play on the A (1st) string may sound better in the D (2nd) string. That may often enough go against to what you had found to be the easiest position to play that passage, but we shouldn't forget what our primary goal is: To create music that sounds great to our ears.
Now, to answer specifically to your question; the whole 1 finger per scale note thing looks rather cumbersome to me, since it forces me to not only stretch my fingers when playing, but it also hinders me from trying other positions that may be easier to for passages that I want to play. So it does look like a bad habit to me, and ultimately one that will drive you away from the tuning as you find it too inconvenient.

Practicing scales, other than helping you "see" the scale notes on the fretboard, does not seem to serve a greater purpose, since they're phrases that you'll rarely use in a song (when walking them up to the octave and then down, that is). However, since you're just starting, I do have some scale examples in a video I reposted just a few days ago. Watch it if you'd like to see my fingering approaches on certain material.



I really hope you've found my answer useful. As a reminder, if you need some more hands-on work on finding fingerings for material you want to play, do ask. In the end, it's that material that'll make you switch and stay to the new tuning.

Cheers!
 
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Thanks @TapyTap! You're right, it is a completely different instrument in this tuning, and I need to treat it as such. I'll keep that in mind.

Thank you too @~M.o.M~! That is very helpful. I appreciate not only answering my question about the 1 finger per scale degree, but also the additional general tips. I'm just waking up but will grab my bass shortly and will check out your video, I'll let you know if I have any questions.
 
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I played bass a little bit when I was young. The real musical training that I have, such as it is, is on clarinet. Seven years ago we joined a new church that needed bass players. I thought I would give it a try and had made some progress towards really learning to play bass some four decades after I had last played around with it. The trouble was that I was also hanging out here on TB and so I got GAS for a fiver too while I was still learning to play. Fivers did not work out that well for me initially, it took a long time for me to adapt to them. But a smattering of people on TB who used or had tried the fifths tuning or in some cases who had merely heard of Red Mitchell convinced me to try it as a way to make four strings do the work of five. That meant relearning the fingerboard just weeks after I had finally learned the fourths tuned fingerboard for the first time in my life. But I gave it a try and for reasons that are still unknown to me, I loved it almost instantly!

I'm telling you this so that you know that my background as a bassist who switched to fifths is different from that of almost everyone else here. I did not have a large collection of songs and riffs that I needed to relearn. I do still try to copy the lines I hear on rehearsal mp3s for the church band and of course they are all written by bassists who tune in fourths. But I don't need to copy them note by note the way someone playing classic rock tunes that the whole audience knows and loves and defends needs to do. I have considerable freedom to play them the way I choose to play them.

Two things that helped me in the beginning were 1) to use an online cello tutor of which there are several on the web if you search for them and 2) the realization that CGDA includes three strings that I already knew from EADG, they are just upside down from the way I learned them. I think it took me two or three weeks to get from zero on CGDA to back where I had been on EADG. And that was a good thing because when I started working on the new tuning I was just sitting in with the worship band at rehearsals and then suddenly someone called in sick one week and I was left to perform on bass guitar in public for the first time in my life on a tuning that I had just "mastered".

On the other hand Red Mitchell was the polar opposite of me when he switched from fourths to fifths. He was a well respected professional with years of experience and a huge catalog of music he was familiar with. His first performance on the fifths tuning was ten days after he started practicing with it! If you devote yourself to it you should be able to get quite proficient on the new tuning pretty quickly. It might take a few months to get to where you feel you are as good with it as with fourths but you should be able to do considerable damage, in a good way, after only a couple of weeks.
 
Thanks @khutch.

This may be my third time trying this tuning out, but I have different musical goals now which are playing in this new tuning's favour.

I used to focus on playing rock/metal songs made by bassists tubing in 4ths and I already struggled to play these songs, so tuning in 5ths felt like an unnecessary hurdle for me.

However, now I am striving to play classical melodies, as well as compose my own songs, and I'm really liking the 5th tuning this time around.

For the last few weeks I've been warming up with an arpeggio figure for Pachelbel's "Canon in D" (the figure is 1-5-8-10 of each chord, and the chords range from the octave of the key down to the root) and now instead of going across 4 strings to hit this arpeggio and sliding up and down the neck to play it, I can play this same arpeggio on 3 strings and have a bit more flexibility of choosing which string to start on for a different tone or different shifting.

I've also been able to find some classical scores for entry level cellists and will work on these, as well as transposing some of my favourite songs to play to the new tuning, just in case I get the itch to go back to 4ths (it will also help me understand the new mapping of the fingerboard).

I'm not going to lie, this is making me want to now get a fretless more than anything else, but I can't swing that right now and I'm also debating getting a digital piano, but I'll figure that out later.
 
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