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The Fifths Tuning Club
- Thread starter ~M.o.M~
- Start date
Yes, I was asking about alternate strings for a Gold Tone micro bass 25 M-Bass25 25-Inch Scale Acoustic-Electric MicroBass with Gig Bag
Not the Ibanez Mikro Bass
Ok, I misunderstood, in that case I've used labella contrabass guitar strings in the past for a similar bass but it looks like they don't do singles anymore.
Got the NewtOne strings today, with the .190 low. Will be a bit of time before I try it, though, first I want to just put the middle three on the bass and record some bowed and slide stuff.
I did record the low B string tuned down to E, so once I get the proper string on there I'll be able to compare whether it actually sounds any better or not. I also tried transposing recordings of the low B tuned to B, so I'll have one real extra-low E, and three different fake ones recorded. For science!
Also, I wonder if I could talk NewtOne into doing flats or even tapewounds...
I did record the low B string tuned down to E, so once I get the proper string on there I'll be able to compare whether it actually sounds any better or not. I also tried transposing recordings of the low B tuned to B, so I'll have one real extra-low E, and three different fake ones recorded. For science!
Also, I wonder if I could talk NewtOne into doing flats or even tapewounds...
I also got the Newtone bronzes this week for my CGDAE tuned Dean EABC5. Unfortunately I messed up the speaking length of the strings with the tapers and they ended up way too short for the Dean. The taper starts before the nut and so they rattle like crazy. There goes my C, G, and D strings. 
The A and E strings were fine, however, and they play well and sound great, but I've kept them off the Dean for the time being. I don't want to mix them with the older Kalium stainless steels since, and I'm hesitant to order a new set for the C, G, and D given that I ordered this set back in January.
The A and E strings were fine, however, and they play well and sound great, but I've kept them off the Dean for the time being. I don't want to mix them with the older Kalium stainless steels since, and I'm hesitant to order a new set for the C, G, and D given that I ordered this set back in January.
I'd give them another chance, Royal Mail had a major hack that messed up international shipping for a while at the end of January.I also got the Newtone bronzes this week for my CGDAE tuned Dean EABC5. Unfortunately I messed up the speaking length of the strings with the tapers and they ended up way too short for the Dean. The taper starts before the nut and so they rattle like crazy. There goes my C, G, and D strings.
The A and E strings were fine, however, and they play well and sound great, but I've kept them off the Dean for the time being. I don't want to mix them with the older Kalium stainless steels since, and I'm hesitant to order a new set for the C, G, and D given that I ordered this set back in January.
Ugh, that's painful. I checked my low-low E and the length there seems good, sufficient full winding past the nut, fortunately.
Just ordered some GHS Super Steels (126-90-58-40) to set up my 4 string in CGDA. I was planning of getting a five-string and in terms of Super Steels it seems that BbFCGD is easier to achieve (with e.g. 138-98-63-44-27) than CGDAE that seems to require a plain steel string. What do you guys think of that?
If you have a 3+2 or 2+3 headstock you can get thinner wound strings from string joy, their guitar strings have a wound length of 39.75, they only do nickel strings though.
I don’t know about anybody else, but, I use 3050s (105-45) BGDA with no issues.
Good to hear that my wait time was a fluke. I'll try again one of these days.
I can't speak for using a plain for the high E, but I've used Kalium and Stringjoy for CGDAE, a wound 0.024" or 0.025" for the high E, respectively. Never had issues with those.
I've tuned down to Bb0 a couple of times, and I think it can be a good alternative to the maybe too common CGDA(E). The open strings are still fairly common notes, you get a bit more low end to better match a regular fiver tuned in fourths, and it still goes higher than a sixer tuned in fourths. If you need the specific open strings of CGDA(E), you can just put a capo on the 2nd fret, which comes with a shorter scale length as a bonus! My only issue with it is that I'd have to relearn the fretboard, since you need the open strings in fifths tuning.
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The Rippingtons are a long-time favorite of mine to listen to and play along with on keyboard and sax. Lately I've been learning some of the bass lines by ear. To my pleasant surprise, "Morocco" lays itself quite nicely on CGDA, especially in the solo section with the spread triads. There's even a few low C's sprinkled around to indulge in.
I'm sure the bass line was played on a fiver in BEADG in the album, and it's usually an uphill battle trying to play music intended for fourths tuning on a fifths-tuned instrument. But occasionally there are happy accidents.
I'm sure the bass line was played on a fiver in BEADG in the album, and it's usually an uphill battle trying to play music intended for fourths tuning on a fifths-tuned instrument. But occasionally there are happy accidents.
Got the 0.190 string on my bass for a few weeks now, tuned EBF#C#G# so far though I'll go a half-step up to FCGDA once I'm done with some recordings where being able to say "low E octave below standard" is good, so I have some thoughts...
One, if you got a fiver you want to tune in fifths but don't feel any need for a high E, going extra low is fun. Not really anything I'll ever "need" and trying to play beautiful legato melodies down there is mud, but good as the occasional thunder. I've done some bowed drones, rubbed the string with a screwdriver, let a clothespin attached to another string rattle against this one etc. For that kind of Nietzsche or possibly niche stuff the extra mass can make for very different sounds, and there's usually a good deal more upper partials than when playing normally. But I suppose this applies whether tuning in fourths or fifths, so just go look up opinions on extra-low tuning with strings the thickness of an earthworm and see if you want that.
There are three things I've found that are specific to fifths, though. One, the tonal contrast between the 5th-6th fret and the next open string is pretty big, probably bigger than in fourths. Two, you can get a ton of extended range on a 5-string bass, whether going FCGDA or CGDAE with a high E or somewhere inbetween. Three, one really neat use for the extra low string is to add a low octave to a note on the G string - and it fourths this is always available even at the 1st fret and open string. So, in fifths adding a high octave like you'd commonly do for disco is less convenient than in fourths and while it's totally doable, it has to be planned in advance; but a low octave note is always there (as long as you're somewhere on the top three strings) and can be added on a whim.
I still don't like roundwounds, though. The low string isn't too bright but all the strings are just... I dunno, maybe I'd need to practice on roundwounds for a while or something, but I just make too much damn noise shifting. I have, however, found somebody willing to make custom flatwounds in odd gauges, giant gauges and odd lengths. Sub Contra Flatwounds lists strings all the way down to C#0 and I did think about doing CCGDA with an octave interval at the bottom if that extra-low string is just going to be used for special effects...
One, if you got a fiver you want to tune in fifths but don't feel any need for a high E, going extra low is fun. Not really anything I'll ever "need" and trying to play beautiful legato melodies down there is mud, but good as the occasional thunder. I've done some bowed drones, rubbed the string with a screwdriver, let a clothespin attached to another string rattle against this one etc. For that kind of Nietzsche or possibly niche stuff the extra mass can make for very different sounds, and there's usually a good deal more upper partials than when playing normally. But I suppose this applies whether tuning in fourths or fifths, so just go look up opinions on extra-low tuning with strings the thickness of an earthworm and see if you want that.
There are three things I've found that are specific to fifths, though. One, the tonal contrast between the 5th-6th fret and the next open string is pretty big, probably bigger than in fourths. Two, you can get a ton of extended range on a 5-string bass, whether going FCGDA or CGDAE with a high E or somewhere inbetween. Three, one really neat use for the extra low string is to add a low octave to a note on the G string - and it fourths this is always available even at the 1st fret and open string. So, in fifths adding a high octave like you'd commonly do for disco is less convenient than in fourths and while it's totally doable, it has to be planned in advance; but a low octave note is always there (as long as you're somewhere on the top three strings) and can be added on a whim.
I still don't like roundwounds, though. The low string isn't too bright but all the strings are just... I dunno, maybe I'd need to practice on roundwounds for a while or something, but I just make too much damn noise shifting. I have, however, found somebody willing to make custom flatwounds in odd gauges, giant gauges and odd lengths. Sub Contra Flatwounds lists strings all the way down to C#0 and I did think about doing CCGDA with an octave interval at the bottom if that extra-low string is just going to be used for special effects...
...but before ordering a 5-string custom set, I figured I'd try to put an old set of fifths-tuning Spirocores that's been sitting in my drawer for years to use. It was shortened to fit an EUB that I sold, so why not shorten them again to see if they fit a bass guitar? And they sorta do, though with most bridges the giant ball ends or the fact that the windings aren't really "normal" until about 3 inches from the ball end would be a problem. Output is a bit weaker on the C and G, presumably because they have copper layers inside, but now I have another bass tuned CCGDA with a roundwound C and a flatwound C next to each other (pointless but...), and if things still appear usable in a week, I'll only need to order an expensive low F.
Thought I'd pop in from the Mikro club and mention my tuning a Mikro in cello tuning CGDA. I'm not the first to do this of course. It's been mentioned in previous 5ths club posts.
I'm not unfamiliar with 5ths tuning, having tried it out on some electric guitars ( along with all 4ths and a few other regular tunings, open Vestapol, & Spanish and modal DADGAD. I tuned in 5ths as CGDAEE. The unison E4 was interesting. Anyhow, back to the Mikro. I got stuck into today using strings I had on hand. Flats except for A3 which was a plain 20. The others were a Dunlop flat 65 for C2. Jazz Guitar flats 40 30 for G2 and D3. I would have used 45 for G2 but the Dunlop 45 is too short to reach the new position of G2 above C. Gave it a whirl for awhile, along with piccolo E2 A2 D3 G3. I kind of started thinking that I had been there done that with both tunings and the timbre and sound was like a baritone with a few less strings. So I put the 65 bass string back where it was, and put the 105, 85 and 45 back on. Tuned back to standard bass tuning. I then thought of doing an octave down from cello , but getting a short scale flatwound as a single in 140/145 is probably a bridge too far. Even a 130 would have less tension than the current 105 in standard E, and that feels a bit too sloppy to me. So I'm gonna turn my attention to a doing 5ths on a long scale. It is easier to get flatwound singles for C1. More of a challenge with the greater fret spacing. But so be it. Pros and cons
I'm not unfamiliar with 5ths tuning, having tried it out on some electric guitars ( along with all 4ths and a few other regular tunings, open Vestapol, & Spanish and modal DADGAD. I tuned in 5ths as CGDAEE. The unison E4 was interesting. Anyhow, back to the Mikro. I got stuck into today using strings I had on hand. Flats except for A3 which was a plain 20. The others were a Dunlop flat 65 for C2. Jazz Guitar flats 40 30 for G2 and D3. I would have used 45 for G2 but the Dunlop 45 is too short to reach the new position of G2 above C. Gave it a whirl for awhile, along with piccolo E2 A2 D3 G3. I kind of started thinking that I had been there done that with both tunings and the timbre and sound was like a baritone with a few less strings. So I put the 65 bass string back where it was, and put the 105, 85 and 45 back on. Tuned back to standard bass tuning. I then thought of doing an octave down from cello , but getting a short scale flatwound as a single in 140/145 is probably a bridge too far. Even a 130 would have less tension than the current 105 in standard E, and that feels a bit too sloppy to me. So I'm gonna turn my attention to a doing 5ths on a long scale. It is easier to get flatwound singles for C1. More of a challenge with the greater fret spacing. But so be it. Pros and cons
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If you’re open to other options, it is easy to do FCGD (which is a fifth down from the cello’s CGDA, you still have those 3 strings, just with a lower F below them). Using 105, 65, 45, 30* (*which can be a long scale high C which is available for a lot of string types for 6-string bass).
Practicality wise FCGD tuning would be a good option. I can't try C1 G2 D2 A2 on my Mikro or long scale because I simply don't have the gauge of string required for C1. Hence why I gave cello tuning a go on the Mikro instead. I can more easily get a flat long scale single in a heavy enough gauge than for the Mikro. To get anything 120 or over in my current brand in short scale, Dunlops, you have to buy 6 singles as a bulk purchase, or scrounge the heaviest gauge out of a 5 string set. Ultimately though, I want the lower notes CGDA brings to the table, and not the 'losing a low note, but gaining 7 high pitches' that FCGD brings to the table. However, another practical advantage wity FCGD, both on my Mikro and long scale is that I don't have muck about with the current nut slot on the lowest string. A 135/140 for C1 is a big leap.
Anyhow, these are the approx tensions for both Mikro using flatwounds and 34" with crapped out roundwounds on compared to the tensions tuning in CGCD or FCGD would exert
34" Total tension in standard EADG is 183lbs
Mikro - Total tension in standard EADG is 134lbs
34" Total tension in CGDA is 185lbs
Mikro - Total tension in CGDA is 135 lbs
34" Total tension in FCGD is 179 lbs
Mikro - Total tension is 129lbs
So both alternate 5th tunings are pretty much around the tensions of current standard tuning, so no relief issues there. Another advantage that comes to mind of FCGD on the Mikro is tensioning up the low string a tad by shifting up from E1 to F1. It does feel a little sloppy to me with a 105 tuned to E. I think Ibanez should have factored in a 120 for standard EADG tuning on a Mikro. Tuning the current 105 up to F# gives the idea of how the right feel should be, for me at least.Losing a bit of tension on the other current strings and the 30 for D3 via FCGD is no big deal.
If anyone using flats in either long or short scale has sourced a single for the juicier gauge required for C1 could they drop a post about it. Great little nook here amongst all the nooks and crannys on TB
p.s members might use pen and paper to get an idea of fretboard geometry using a new tuning. There are also online fretboards. One I find quite helpful with its simplicity is this one here Link Removed
Probably not a new site for some
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If you can get a 5 string Mikro set, just toss the E string and tune the rest to CGDA the A ends up a little taut but a single .040 would fix that for a few bucks.
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Yeh seen the 5 set 45-125. I would do it if absolutely required. Sure be cheaper than buying 6 Dunlop singles. But I reckon I'm gonna just try out CGDA on a 34" inch now. I think my ol mate Major ( my Mikro's name) is tired of me mucking about with him. He's a sensitive chap he he. I've got to get a new set of flats for the 34" anyhow because it had rounds on it when I bought it, but rounds give me the same feeling as finger nails dragged across a blackboard. The conundrum is I am pretty sure my fav brand of flats, Dunlop, doesn't go heavier in a set than 125 and I don't think that is enough for C1 tension wise. I think XL chrome flats go up to 132 but could be wrong. I think Dunlops sound better than Chromes though. And feel nicer to me. But other brands out there I might check out
