The Fifths Tuning Club

[Will_White]

Build your own custom balanced sets through either Kalium or Stringjoy:
String Tension Calculator
Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator

Neither of those do flats.

 

[Diplock]

I want to move to 5ths tuning on at least one bass but not being able to get flats relatively easily is a bummer.

 

[Will_White]

I want to move to 5ths tuning on at least one bass but not being able to get flats relatively easily is a bummer.

You can get flats easy enough, if you like Chromes, or you don't mind having to mix and match. Most 5 string sets work well if you toss the E string, the G gets a little tight tuned up to A but a couple places sell .040 singles.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Karlo Monk]

FWIW, I petition Daddario to make Zyex fifths set about 4x year. My fave string set so far:
Spiro RM mittel C and G
Zyex medium D and Obli A from the solo set - not the one from the fifths set - the solo a is slightly higher tension…

 

[Karlo Monk]

I want to move to 5ths tuning on at least one bass but not being able to get flats relatively easily is a bummer.

NS makes a fifths set for I believe a 34” scale that work on electric. They were made for the omnibass/cello thingy they have. Around $140 I think…
I wanted to buy a set for my fretless…

 

[DesolationBlvd]

I am considering getting an Ibanez UB805 with the intent of bowing it, and tuning it to a fifths tuning if I don’t like it as a standard fourths bass.

I am considering two tunings, CGDAE with the CGDA an octave down from the cello, or FCGDA with the CGDA being the same as a cello. The former would still allow me to use it as a bass instrument, while the latter would make it a lead melody instrument.

For the latter tuning, I’m thinking D’Addario Chromes.

A: 20 plain, same as the G from their piccolo set, 52 lbs
D: 32, ~49 lbs
G: 45, 45.7 lbs
C: 65, 41.3 lbs
F: 95, 39.6 lbs

I’m worried about the plain A sounding wonky.

But I’m lost on the former tuning. It looks like E would be really nasty and floppy if I used the piccolo G, but finger-breakingly tight with even a 30 (available from Rotosound 77).

Should I just give up on the fifth string? As this is a fretless instrument, I would rather not use rounds.

 

[Will_White]

I am considering getting an Ibanez UB805 with the intent of bowing it, and tuning it to a fifths tuning if I don’t like it as a standard fourths bass.

I am considering two tunings, CGDAE with the CGDA an octave down from the cello, or FCGDA with the CGDA being the same as a cello. The former would still allow me to use it as a bass instrument, while the latter would make it a lead melody instrument.

For the latter tuning, I’m thinking D’Addario Chromes.

A: 20 plain, same as the G from their piccolo set, 52 lbs
D: 32, ~49 lbs
G: 45, 45.7 lbs
C: 65, 41.3 lbs
F: 95, 39.6 lbs

I’m worried about the plain A sounding wonky.

But I’m lost on the former tuning. It looks like E would be really nasty and floppy if I used the piccolo G, but finger-breakingly tight with even a 30 (available from Rotosound 77).

Should I just give up on the fifth string? As this is a fretless instrument, I would rather not use rounds.

You can use guitar chromes depending on how long the strings need to be.

 

[DesolationBlvd]

You can use guitar chromes depending on how long the strings need to be.

I just saw that on another post on this forum. Luckily, between the bridge type on the UB (single saddles vs the traditional saddle on an NS) and the fact that the high string’s tuner is close to the nut, I think I can make it work. 20 for cello A might be pushing it, but 26 for E sounds like it will work.

EDIT: Not ideal for balanced tension, but I could just buy the 26 E, then with the stock set tune the E up to G, toss the A, bump the D over, and tune the G up to A.

 

[mrvan]

Here's what I've got on my NS Omni:

GHS Precision Flats tuned in 5ths CGDAE
E3: .026" 42.8 lbs
A2: .036" 40.1 lbs
D2: .055" 38.4 lbs
G1: .085" 40.7 lbs
C1: .126" 38.6 lbs

I think these can all be had a singles, but the lower two came from a 45-126 set I already had. The E3 and A2 are guitar strings, but the 40" overall length with 38" from ball to taper worked on the Omni. They also match the 2/3 diameter ratio rule pretty closely.

I'm just learning, but so far, they respond to the bow well.

 

[pklima]

I got the 0.175 flatwound low F from octave4plus, got it installed on my Washburn AB95. Fits properly, sounds nice, is a good match tone-wise and output-wise for the Spirocores though it does feel a bit looser (to be expected, 0.200 would probably be needed for a consistent feel but we figured this will sound better), and is even usable around like the 15th fret. Can recommend so far, if anybody needs flatwounds in odd gauges/lengths. This one string was $100 plus shipping, though, so not cheap.

Now, do you "need" notes that low if you don't play certain kinds of metal, we'll see. For occasional thunderous emphasis or adding an extra low octave to a note on the G string it's good. I'm going to record some prepared bass stuff, like clothespins hanging off the next string and buzzing against this one, too. Oughta be fun.

 

[Cal03]

Quick update: I had to lend my fiver to a family member over the summer, and I figured the easiest way to deal with strings was to just swap the tunings on my fiver (CGDAE) and sixer (BEADGC). The fiver is back in fourths and the sixer is once again in fifths. I'm reusing the plain high B I got back in December 2021, and it's still holding up well. The range monster has returned!

 

[Diplock]

For people who use both 4ths and 5ths tunings when you were starting out with 5ths how much of a mind game was it going back and forth between 4ths and 5ths?

 

[Cal03]

For people who use both 4ths and 5ths tunings when you were starting out with 5ths how much of a mind game was it going back and forth between 4ths and 5ths?

It can be a real pain to switch back and forth. I find that warming up with some scales and arpeggios (maybe even some chords) help lock me in to whatever tuning I'm playing in.

 

[Will_White]

For people who use both 4ths and 5ths tunings when you were starting out with 5ths how much of a mind game was it going back and forth between 4ths and 5ths?

Depends on what I learned the song in, my standard 4ths is D standard so my G stays the same. Ease of switching depends on if I learned it in G1DAE, CGDA, or G0DAE. I really only have a problem going from G1DAE to DGCF but it only takes a couple minutes of warm up and I get it back under my fingers. Going from D standard to any of the Fifths tunings isn't an issue for me.

 

[Cal03]

Depends on what I learned the song in, my standard 4ths is D standard so my G stays the same. Ease of switching depends on if I learned it in G1DAE, CGDA, or G0DAE. I really only have a problem going from G1DAE to DGCF but it only takes a couple minutes of warm up and I get it back under my fingers. Going from D standard to any of the Fifths tunings isn't an issue for me.

Ah yes that's another helpful tip. Any inner string that stays fixed will also invert the other strings around it, so for example in EADG vs. CGDA, the D string swaps the A and G strings around it. @Will_White that's quite interesting that your reference in 4ths is D standard, the shared string is G1 instead of D2 like in E standard.

Fixing one of the two outer strings isn't as helpful, because all of the other strings will have different note names! For EADG, fixing the low E and moving upwards gives EBF#C#, while fixing the high G and moving downwards gives BbFCG. No shared note names other than the lowest or highest ones, respectively.

Case in point, the tuning I have on my sixer is an inversion of the regular 6-string tuning, CGDAEB instead of BEADGC. None of the strings are actually shared, but all of the note names are the same.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

One thing I have found helpful in different tunings is learning 3 note modal fragments which are the same on each string regardless of tuning. So you aren't bound by your standard tuning scale shapes. As long as you know your notes and what position they occupy in any given scale ie their interval number ie Root , second etc you can freely improvise in any key and any tuning. There are various ways of approaching the fragments. Take the Ionian. You could see it as R (1) 2 3 or, and I favour this, you can see it as X . Thus Ionian off the root, lydian off the 4th and Mixolydian off the 5th will all be X . For Dorian and Aeolian you could have 2 3 4 and 6 7 R (1) or Z. Phrygian and Locrian 4 5 6 and 7 R (1) 2 or Y. You have to see it in your mind that X has a shape and stands for 2 whole steps 2 2. Dorian and Aeolian is a step + half step 2 1. You see that as your Z shape. phrygian and Locrian are half step + whole step 1 2. You see that as your Y shape. Wanna do harmonic minor. Just change your Phrgian Y shape to a half + step and 1/2 step 1 3 and call it Y'er ( extended Y) for Lydian step step becomes step + half step+ half step 3 1
Just call that X'er ( extended X) Mixolydian X ( step step) becomes half step + step 1 2 and thus a Y shape ( as per Locrian and Phrygian. I call the 7th mode in harmonic minor Hyper Mixolydian ie mixolydian starting on a sharpened 5th) Now all this prob causes some head scratching. It does at first until you reduce each mode of whatever scale to an X Z and Y and the modified Y'er and X'er. But after your mind makes the connection., Ah yes, 3 linear scale notes off the root is X shape. 3 linear scale notes off the 5th of the scale is X shape. 3 linear scale notes off the 3rd is Y and so on. This X Z Y thing isn't my idea. See here for where I got this way at looking at modal fragments from. Very liberating once your brain makes the connections

Guitar Modes Unified
I don't get into the modes vs the parent scale thing. I just use these modal fragments as roadmaps for whatever the key is in irrespective of the underlying harmony

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Correction. Phrygian is 3 4 5 if going by scale interval numbers for a linear modal fragment. Not 4 5 6

 

[Muck Luto]

Hi,
Just found this thread, I never imagined that this subject would interest other bassists.

I used to play and tour for years with two basses, one tuned in the "regular" way and the other in Fifths.

The inspiration came from Janik Top from french band Magma. He used to be a cello player and switched to this tuning at the beginning of the seventies. You can ear the result on the 1973 "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh" record.


Here is an example of what we used to play :


From my experience it works very well with jazz basses, especially the full mapple ones. I can't say the same with a precision, it's like having too much sonic information. The result, to my taste, is messy.

I used to buy five-strings rotosound RS665LD with a 45 to 130 gauge. Tune the B-string to C, leave the A string (got a lot of them ...), tune the E to G. D stays standard and G goes to A.
Very powerful sound, full of harmonics. The possibilities are huge but you have to write tune differently and forget the standard fourth habits.

 

[Cal03]

I've been writing down my warm up exercises lately, and I wanted to share one of them here in case others might find them useful.

This is a diatonic scale exercise in all 12 keys using the four-note-per string technique with the open strings as much as possible. The extra shifting and longer scale length means that I need to use the open strings and stay below the 7th fret most of the time, so I find this type of exercise really helpful to warm up with anytime I play in fifths.

The exercise is written for 4-string CGDA with both standard notation and TAB, but if anyone wants to accommodate different tunings or more strings, I'm happy to write them out.

Please let me know if there are any mistakes or typos, I'll gladly update the PDF.

Some technical remarks:

• Since I'm starting on the lowest open string, most of these are actually modes of the major scale instead of the major scale itself. The essential part is practicing the key signature.
• There's necessarily a few spots where I have to deviate from four-note-per string + open string approach. Db and D could have been written out in their respective Locrian modes (C and C#), but I really don't like Locrian so I kept both as major scales.
• The only key without any open strings available is F# / Gb major. If you don't count the lowest open string then Db major also has no open strings available. By this metric, these keys (tritone and semitone above lowest open string, respectively) are possibly the most difficult to play in for CGDA.

 

[Lowdownbassman]

This is great. Variation possibilities are endless. Dotted 1/4 + 8th hooked bowing, portato, 3 and 4 note slurring combinations. Well done!