The Fifths Tuning Club

[Dave Curran]

HELP, I've lost my mind!!!!

Thanks to this thread I want to get rid of 5 guitars, and replace them with all 4 strings. (mix of 5 and 6) I've tuned my squier tele bass (32" scale, 4 string) and my brice fretless 5 to 5ths... The tele bass is so much more fun to play now, having that extended range on a 4, I don't need a 5 now. I tuned the 5 string to FCGDA, and the 4 to CGDA. The fifth string is useless to me now.

Both basses sound so much better, more musical perhaps? The learning curve for me was so easy. It seems to make more sense to me being able to play octaves on 2 instead of 3 strings. I am using much more of the fretboad now. Playing chords and solos over root notes is so much easier to me. It's almost like I feel like I have been doing it wrong for the last 2 years....

I know I'll have to keep one bass in standard tuning, as there are songs that I'm sure I won't be able to play. I also want to get a DB tuned to quint. The video in the begging of this thread convinced me of that. Everything just seems more natural to me.

Off to read through the rest of this thread, and look around for more research material. Thank you for enlightening me!

 

[khutch]

I am glad you like the tuning. Some of us do and some do not. For me it was love at first play and I have never looked back although as you say it could make sense to have a bass tuned in fourths too. It has been over three years since I switched however and I am not sure I would remember how to play in fourths!

If you tune your fiver to the low F, twenty some Hz, I can see where it might not be very useful. I have a five string tuned CGDAE and a six string (a Squier VI) tuned CGDAEB and both are quite useful. The fiver gives you the range of almost seven strings and the sixer will match an eight string. Not everyone needs that much range and I have yet to learn to make the best use of it. If I ever do learn what to do with it I expect it will be very useful. On the other hand a four string tuned in fifths is quite useful already and it is nice to get that range from a bass that just feels right. Welcome to the club!

 

[Jhclark]

After experimentation and much internal deliberation, I have decided, personally, that anyone doing this at home, for themselves, for fun, as opposed to finding use for it in a professional rock setting, like maybe Mr Wolstenholme (Muse) could possibly do, the best option, in my humble but educated opinion, is honestly to pick up a cello.

Especially if you are considering buying another bass guitar for the sole purpose of having one tuned in 5ths, you can find a cello outfit on Amazon with a bow, case, extra strings and a stand for under $200. You can find quite a nice one for around 400. Of course you'll want to upgrade the strings straight away, just as anyone would with a guitar, but cello string set runs from $100 to $400. Just change them every 10 years and it's not bad.

I have been playing bass guitar for 15 years, cello for 20 years, and bass-tuned-in-fifths for 1 year. I teach cello and bass, but not 5ths bass, though I do love the novelty!

If anyone would like any further advice on going this route (which is, indeed, 1 octave above the 5ths bass CGDA) please send me a message and I'll be happy to help.

 

[khutch]

Just ran across this which some might find interesting:

Invalid Link Removed

It is a master's thesis by a student named Stephen Bright at York University in Toronto. It is pretty readable, much more so than a masters thesis in my profession, electrical engineering, would be! And it has some musical examples you can play. It explores the differences between playing walking bass lines in fifths and fourths so it should be quite instructive, I've just started looking through it.

As far as playing a cello goes, well yeah, it is an instrument with a beautiful sound and even though an octave above where I tune my bass it is still a bass instrument. It is certainly something that anyone who likes fifths on a BG could consider taking up. A number of cellists I've heard of who have taken up BG were delighted to hear that they could be tuned CGDA so it goes both ways! In the thesis by Stephen Bright he claims that Red Mitchell consulted with cellists and/or a cello instructor to get tips on how to play in fifths and I think that is another good way to tap into the wealth of experience with playing this tuning that exists in the cello community, whether you actually take up the cello or not.

 

[TapyTap]

Khutch,

What a great find! Thank you for posting Mr. Bright's research...I'll be certain to give it a read.

 

[JES]

This looks great. I wonder what other academic research is out there on bass playing that we should know about....

 

[Dave Curran]

Well it's been 2 months for me, and still playing fifths almost exclusively. My 4 string used to sit for months at a time, now it gets played almost all the time. The only other bass I play now is my five string fretless, tuned to GCGDA. Seriously thinking about selling off the group of 5 and 6ers and buying a couple more 4 string. One fretless and one with stainless rounds.

I don't see how this is novel.? To me playing in fifths feels much more natural than fourths. There's a couple of songs I play that are a little more difficult to play, but most are easier. I find the notes faster without thinking where I'm going next. I use more of the neck now. Learning the new positions of the notes wasn't hard for me at all. Easier than it was tuning to fourths. Like going from imperial measurements to metric, just fits my way of thinking better.

 

[c_maj]

Well it's been 2 months for me, and still playing fifths almost exclusively. My 4 string used to sit for months at a time, now it gets played almost all the time. The only other bass I play now is my five string fretless, tuned to GCGDA. Seriously thinking about selling off the group of 5 and 6ers and buying a couple more 4 string. One fretless and one with stainless rounds.

I don't see how this is novel.? To me playing in fifths feels much more natural than fourths. There's a couple of songs I play that are a little more difficult to play, but most are easier. I find the notes faster without thinking where I'm going next. I use more of the neck now. Learning the new positions of the notes wasn't hard for me at all. Easier than it was tuning to fourths. Like going from imperial measurements to metric, just fits my way of thinking better.

Your post is refreshing, and I love your last sentence. Welcome to the other side.

 

[~M.o.M~]

Seriously thinking about selling off the group of 5 and 6ers and buying a couple more 4 string.

Don't give those away yet! Try retuning them to all fifths first. You might be surprised by the extended range and the chordal abilities that'll show up, and explore sounds that you never thought your basses had.

If it's all for the funding of a wonderful fretless purchase though, I totally understand that.

By the way, it surprises me how familiar the tuning feels to you. For me, it felt like an exciting, adventurous expedition to the unknown. For you it feels like as simple as home.

 

[~M.o.M~]

In order to keep things a little interesting, I put my sloppy playing in use to showcase the beauty of harmonics in fifths tuning.

Hopefully this will encourage some more recordings to come in our club.

For those interested in technical info, this one was recorded using my AEBF#C# tuned Warwick Dolphin SN TCS 5 directly plugged in an M-Audio FireWire 1814 sound card.

 

[c_maj]

In order to keep things a little interesting, I put my sloppy playing in use to showcase the beauty of harmonics in fifths tuning.

Hopefully this will encourage some more recordings to come in our club.

For those interested in technical info, this one was recorded using my AEBF#C# tuned Warwick Dolphin SN TCS 5 directly plugged in an M-Audio FireWire 1814 sound card.

Very nice! That's sloppy?! I'm actually envious of how clear and crisp your harmonics are. Another bassist suggested to me that the key to clear notes is compression; is that your key as well?

 

[~M.o.M~]

Very nice! That's sloppy?! I'm actually envious of how clear and crisp your harmonics are. Another bassist suggested to me that the key to clear notes is compression; is that your key as well?

Thanks a lot for your compliment! I still believe though that the timing's off at times.

Now for the clarity of the harmonics...

Technique-wise; make sure that the fingers of your fretting hand touch the strings at the right points for the harmonics to come out, as lightly as possible, and that when striking the string, you get your fingers off as soon as possible so that the notes don't drown out. For the plucking hand, what works for me is using the tips of the fingers (and not the pads) close enough to the bridge, using more power on the plucks to achieve the proper dynamics.

Truth to be told, I messed with some things on the recording prior to uploading it. On the harmonics-only part, I EQed some bass frequencies out that I didn't notice on my headphones when I was recording. They felt muddy and I wanted them out. Also, in order to give more volume, I used one of the compression settings included in the audio editor. I'm a little clueless about these stuff so I don't know if it actually brought the harmonics out more. You can listen to the original recording here.

But yeah, from what I've read I do believe that a good compression pedal can bring out elements of your playing that would otherwise sound weaker, like slap, harmonics, tapping, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know from personal experience. I haven't had the chance to use one yet!

Finally, one thing that could make your harmonics come out more are your pickups. You could try playing with the settings until you find your desired sound, or you could try replacing the pickups altogether. For example, listen to Invalid Link Removed demo featured on Q-tuner's Invalid Link Removed. The harmonics there sound so clear you'd think the performer doesn't play bass, but an other instrument!

That's all I can think of now. If you need me to elaborate on something, or if anything sounds ambiguous, feel free to ask.

 

[c_maj]

Thanks a lot for your compliment! I still believe though that the timing's off at times.

Now for the clarity of the harmonics...

Technique-wise; make sure that the fingers of your fretting hand touch the strings at the right points for the harmonics to come out, as lightly as possible, and that when striking the string, you get your fingers off as soon as possible so that the notes don't drown out. For the plucking hand, what works for me is using the tips of the fingers (and not the pads) close enough to the bridge, using more power on the plucks to achieve the proper dynamics.

Truth to be told, I messed with some things on the recording prior to uploading it. On the harmonics-only part, I EQed some bass frequencies out that I didn't notice on my headphones when I was recording. They felt muddy and I wanted them out. Also, in order to give more volume, I used one of the compression settings included in the audio editor. I'm a little clueless about these stuff so I don't know if it actually brought the harmonics out more. You can listen to the original recording here.

But yeah, from what I've read I do believe that a good compression pedal can bring out elements of your playing that would otherwise sound weaker, like slap, harmonics, tapping, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know from personal experience. I haven't had the chance to use one yet!

Finally, one thing that could make your harmonics come out more are your pickups. You could try playing with the settings until you find your desired sound, or you could try replacing the pickups altogether. For example, listen to Invalid Link Removed demo featured on Q-tuner's Invalid Link Removed. The harmonics there sound so clear you'd think the performer doesn't play bass, but an other instrument!

That's all I can think of now. If you need me to elaborate on something, or if anything sounds ambiguous, feel free to ask.

Thank you! I believe the bolded text is something that I don't really do, so I'll definitely give it a try.

 

[c_maj]

Wow, it's the littlest things that make such a difference. Lifting my fingers off the strings made a huge impact. Thanks for the tip!

 

[~M.o.M~]

Wow, it's the littlest things that make such a difference. Lifting my fingers off the strings made a huge impact. Thanks for the tip!

Glad to be of help!

Continuing the recordings series, here's one more containing both slap and harmonics.



The slap part was recorded using my Yamaha RBX170 (tuned in CGDA). For the harmonics, my Warwick was used once more, this time though tuned in BbFCGD. Both were directly plugged into the M-Audio Firewire 1814.

 

[Persona87]

Have any of you guys thought about tuning your fifths bass GDAE? I play bass and mandolin, and I've been thinking about getting an octave mandolin as well. It would be nice for the strings to be the same tuning for easier transfer, and I tend to play mostly solo melodic stuff anyway. The only group I play with are ukulele players, so even a low G provides a lot of octave separation.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Interesting idea, I play an octave mandolin as well. Think I'm going to try it on a short scale, might be a nice change, get beyond the somewhat dull low e by bringing it up a few steps.

 

[khutch]

GDAE would be close to a fifths tuned equivalent of EADG. FCGD would be even closer. I've given some thought to using one of those tunings on a spare four string but since I have a five string tuned CGDAE there is little reason to do that. If you do much chording on your four string then those two higher tunings will work better, IMO, since I find most of the C string too "muddy" when used for chording. I do have a Squier VI and that is tuned CGDAEB which works fine. When I bought strings for it I got a couple extra so that I could tune FCGDAE if I needed to.

 

[pklima]

Very useful if you play a lot of Australian music - after all "gdae" is Australian for "hello".

Sorry, couldn't resist. For an ukulele band or folky stuff in general, which traditionally would either have no bass or a DB not playing a lot of extremely low notes, it should be very useful.

 

[~M.o.M~]

Have any of you guys thought about tuning your fifths bass GDAE? I play bass and mandolin, and I've been thinking about getting an octave mandolin as well. It would be nice for the strings to be the same tuning for easier transfer, and I tend to play mostly solo melodic stuff anyway. The only group I play with are ukulele players, so even a low G provides a lot of octave separation.

This guy here rocks a GDAE tuning on a dual-course 8 string bass. It could be just what you'd want.