Trying to picture you asleep on that stack....
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
The FireDragon Triplets
- Thread starter Christine
- Start date
@Christine Does this build make you a Dragon Lady ?
I'm having one of those mornings remembering friends departed that you get from time to time. The post above about the white spirit soaking into the rosewood reminded me of my favourite oil finish that was explained to me by an English cabinet maker called Alan Peters and I thought I'd share it here. This oil finish isn't for the light hearted, impatient or fretboards, it is best suited to darker solid timbers, Walnut being a perfect example.
Many people might well just slap on four or five coats of Danish oil and call the job done, well yes that has it's place and can be more that adequate for many applications but it lacks that little something and lacks a lot in durability especially on furniture but less so on guitar bodies
So why bother mentioning this, well if you see the two side by side there is no comparison at all visually, the depth of colour is really brought out by this method and after time (several years) the colours and subtleties of the wood explodes with life whereas the four or five coats of Danish oil will just have faded a little.
So what is it and how do we do it: Well you finish sand your piece, then with a damp cloth wipe the surface to raise the grain, then with 240 - 320 paper sand it smooth again, do that again three or four times until the wood remains smooth after wetting leaving a good hour between goes. Your piece is now ready for the first part of the oiling.
In a jar of some sort mix 50:50 white spirit and RAW linseed oil, now wet the surface of the wood, almost flood it if you can, every time the surface has soaked up the oil re flood it and keep doing this until the wood will absorb no more, give it a wipe between coats to remove any dust with a clean rag with white spirit on it. That process may well take a good week, sometimes even longer until it has become saturated. The wood now has to be left to evaporate out the with spirit, so a warmish room for maybe two weeks with good air circulation.
Once the smell of white spirit have gone and it feels dry the next stage is a two stage process using BOILED Linseed oil. The first part is with the oil diluted as above with white spirit, once a day flood the surface, let it stand for 20 minutes then wipe dry and leave for 24 hours and do it again. If the surface stays wet looking after the 20 minutes let it rest for a couple of days then move on the the part two stage which is exactly the same but with undiluted boiled linseed oil, you need four or five coats of this until the surface layers are totally saturated and won't absorb any more. Now you need to let that fully dry for about a week before moving onto the final stage.
Lightly sand the surface with 320 grit paper then wipe the dust off with a clean rag dampened with white spirit then wipe it dry. With a clean cloth apply the first layer of Danish oil, wet the surface, leave it for about 20 minutes then with the same cloth wipe the surface dry, leave it 24 hours to fully set then lighty sand with 320 grit. Do that again the next day. On the third day we change our technique slightly, we apply the oil and wait 20 minutes (or so depending on how quickly it dries), then with the same cloth rub the wet slightly sticky oil in circular and figure of eight patterns as in French polishing until your left with a swirl free finish, the oil will thicken during this and get pushed into the pores of the wood. The next day if the wood feels perfectly smooth then do the same again, if it feels slightly rough cut the surface back slightly with 0000 wire wool first. You might need four or five applications like that until you feel the surface is as you want it. Once the last coat is on leave it overnight then have a good look at it in the morning, it should be perfect, if not then with a very clean soft duster buff the surface in the same patterns as you did with the oil then it should be 100% perfect and with a high sheen. Once we're there we again set the wood aside for a week to fully set and become durable. If you want a satin finish then at this stage just cut the surface back with 0000 wire wool
That's about it, ongoing maintenance would be an occasional wipe with Teak oil as needed. Your surfaces should now be deep and full of lustre and be ultra hard wearing. Whether or not you want to do that on a bass body is up to you obviously, it's a long process but if you have a nice piece of wood it may be worth it.
Lastly a word of caution, those rags with oil on, dispose of them after every use either by laying out flat to dry before binning them or by burning them, oily rags can and often do spontaneously combust. I once did a job fitting out the local church with new fittings (alter etc.), I needed to do a little oiling there for some reason I forget but rather than take the rag back to the workshop I threw it into a public dustbin outside the church, four or five hours later that bin caught fire
Whoops 
Many people might well just slap on four or five coats of Danish oil and call the job done, well yes that has it's place and can be more that adequate for many applications but it lacks that little something and lacks a lot in durability especially on furniture but less so on guitar bodies
So why bother mentioning this, well if you see the two side by side there is no comparison at all visually, the depth of colour is really brought out by this method and after time (several years) the colours and subtleties of the wood explodes with life whereas the four or five coats of Danish oil will just have faded a little. So what is it and how do we do it: Well you finish sand your piece, then with a damp cloth wipe the surface to raise the grain, then with 240 - 320 paper sand it smooth again, do that again three or four times until the wood remains smooth after wetting leaving a good hour between goes. Your piece is now ready for the first part of the oiling.
In a jar of some sort mix 50:50 white spirit and RAW linseed oil, now wet the surface of the wood, almost flood it if you can, every time the surface has soaked up the oil re flood it and keep doing this until the wood will absorb no more, give it a wipe between coats to remove any dust with a clean rag with white spirit on it. That process may well take a good week, sometimes even longer until it has become saturated. The wood now has to be left to evaporate out the with spirit, so a warmish room for maybe two weeks with good air circulation.
Once the smell of white spirit have gone and it feels dry the next stage is a two stage process using BOILED Linseed oil. The first part is with the oil diluted as above with white spirit, once a day flood the surface, let it stand for 20 minutes then wipe dry and leave for 24 hours and do it again. If the surface stays wet looking after the 20 minutes let it rest for a couple of days then move on the the part two stage which is exactly the same but with undiluted boiled linseed oil, you need four or five coats of this until the surface layers are totally saturated and won't absorb any more. Now you need to let that fully dry for about a week before moving onto the final stage.
Lightly sand the surface with 320 grit paper then wipe the dust off with a clean rag dampened with white spirit then wipe it dry. With a clean cloth apply the first layer of Danish oil, wet the surface, leave it for about 20 minutes then with the same cloth wipe the surface dry, leave it 24 hours to fully set then lighty sand with 320 grit. Do that again the next day. On the third day we change our technique slightly, we apply the oil and wait 20 minutes (or so depending on how quickly it dries), then with the same cloth rub the wet slightly sticky oil in circular and figure of eight patterns as in French polishing until your left with a swirl free finish, the oil will thicken during this and get pushed into the pores of the wood. The next day if the wood feels perfectly smooth then do the same again, if it feels slightly rough cut the surface back slightly with 0000 wire wool first. You might need four or five applications like that until you feel the surface is as you want it. Once the last coat is on leave it overnight then have a good look at it in the morning, it should be perfect, if not then with a very clean soft duster buff the surface in the same patterns as you did with the oil then it should be 100% perfect and with a high sheen. Once we're there we again set the wood aside for a week to fully set and become durable. If you want a satin finish then at this stage just cut the surface back with 0000 wire wool
That's about it, ongoing maintenance would be an occasional wipe with Teak oil as needed. Your surfaces should now be deep and full of lustre and be ultra hard wearing. Whether or not you want to do that on a bass body is up to you obviously, it's a long process but if you have a nice piece of wood it may be worth it.
Lastly a word of caution, those rags with oil on, dispose of them after every use either by laying out flat to dry before binning them or by burning them, oily rags can and often do spontaneously combust. I once did a job fitting out the local church with new fittings (alter etc.), I needed to do a little oiling there for some reason I forget but rather than take the rag back to the workshop I threw it into a public dustbin outside the church, four or five hours later that bin caught fire
Whoops 
Holy CRAP!!! Nothing about that sounds inexpensiveI'm having one of those mornings remembering friends departed that you get from time to time. The post above about the white spirit soaking into the rosewood reminded me of my favourite oil finish that was explained to me by an English cabinet maker called Alan Peters and I thought I'd share it here. This oil finish isn't for the light hearted, impatient or fretboards, it is best suited to darker solid timbers, Walnut being a perfect example.
Many people might well just slap on four or five coats of Danish oil and call the job done, well yes that has it's place and can be more that adequate for many applications but it lacks that little something and lacks a lot in durability especially on furniture but less so on guitar bodies
So what is it and how do we do it: Well you finish sand your piece, then with a damp cloth wipe the surface to raise the grain, then with 240 - 320 paper sand it smooth again, do that again three or four times until the wood remains smooth after wetting leaving a good hour between goes. Your piece is now ready for the first part of the oiling.
In a jar of some sort mix 50:50 white spirit and RAW linseed oil, now wet the surface of the wood, almost flood it if you can, every time the surface has soaked up the oil re flood it and keep doing this until the wood will absorb no more, give it a wipe between coats to remove any dust with a clean rag with white spirit on it. That process may well take a good week, sometimes even longer until it has become saturated. The wood now has to be left to evaporate out the with spirit, so a warmish room for maybe two weeks with good air circulation.
Once the smell of white spirit have gone and it feels dry the next stage is a two stage process using BOILED Linseed oil. The first part is with the oil diluted as above with white spirit, once a day flood the surface, let it stand for 20 minutes then wipe dry and leave for 24 hours and do it again. If the surface stays wet looking after the 20 minutes let it rest for a couple of days then move on the the part two stage which is exactly the same but with undiluted boiled linseed oil, you need four or five coats of this until the surface layers are totally saturated and won't absorb any more. Now you need to let that fully dry for about a week before moving onto the final stage.
Lightly sand the surface with 320 grit paper then wipe the dust off with a clean rag dampened with white spirit then wipe it dry. With a clean cloth apply the first layer of Danish oil, wet the surface, leave it for about 20 minutes then with the same cloth wipe the surface dry, leave it 24 hours to fully set then lighty sand with 320 grit. Do that again the next day. On the third day we change our technique slightly, we apply the oil and wait 20 minutes (or so depending on how quickly it dries), then with the same cloth rub the wet slightly sticky oil in circular and figure of eight patterns as in French polishing until your left with a swirl free finish, the oil will thicken during this and get pushed into the pores of the wood. The next day if the wood feels perfectly smooth then do the same again, if it feels slightly rough cut the surface back slightly with 0000 wire wool first. You might need four or five applications like that until you feel the surface is as you want it. Once the last coat is on leave it overnight then have a good look at it in the morning, it should be perfect, if not then with a very clean soft duster buff the surface in the same patterns as you did with the oil then it should be 100% perfect and with a high sheen. Once we're there we again set the wood aside for a week to fully set and become durable. If you want a satin finish then at this stage just cut the surface back with 0000 wire wool
That's about it, ongoing maintenance would be an occasional wipe with Teak oil as needed. Your surfaces should now be deep and full of lustre and be ultra hard wearing. Whether or not you want to do that on a bass body is up to you obviously, it's a long process but if you have a nice piece of wood it may be worth it.
Lastly a word of caution, those rags with oil on, dispose of them after every use either by laying out flat to dry before binning them or by burning them, oily rags can and often do spontaneously combust. I once did a job fitting out the local church with new fittings (alter etc.), I needed to do a little oiling there for some reason I forget but rather than take the rag back to the workshop I threw it into a public dustbin outside the church, four or five hours later that bin caught fire
Only time really, you could do a dining table for about $30 but the results are worth every minute of the waiting honestlyHoly CRAP!!! Nothing about that sounds inexpensive
Aside again, that finish is only for solid wood, it won't work on veneered surfaces, it either won't penetrate the glue holding the veneer
You mean someone threw the rag in the dustbin.I'm having one of those mornings remembering friends departed that you get from time to time. The post above about the white spirit soaking into the rosewood reminded me of my favourite oil finish that was explained to me by an English cabinet maker called Alan Peters and I thought I'd share it here. This oil finish isn't for the light hearted, impatient or fretboards, it is best suited to darker solid timbers, Walnut being a perfect example.
Many people might well just slap on four or five coats of Danish oil and call the job done, well yes that has it's place and can be more that adequate for many applications but it lacks that little something and lacks a lot in durability especially on furniture but less so on guitar bodies
So what is it and how do we do it: Well you finish sand your piece, then with a damp cloth wipe the surface to raise the grain, then with 240 - 320 paper sand it smooth again, do that again three or four times until the wood remains smooth after wetting leaving a good hour between goes. Your piece is now ready for the first part of the oiling.
In a jar of some sort mix 50:50 white spirit and RAW linseed oil, now wet the surface of the wood, almost flood it if you can, every time the surface has soaked up the oil re flood it and keep doing this until the wood will absorb no more, give it a wipe between coats to remove any dust with a clean rag with white spirit on it. That process may well take a good week, sometimes even longer until it has become saturated. The wood now has to be left to evaporate out the with spirit, so a warmish room for maybe two weeks with good air circulation.
Once the smell of white spirit have gone and it feels dry the next stage is a two stage process using BOILED Linseed oil. The first part is with the oil diluted as above with white spirit, once a day flood the surface, let it stand for 20 minutes then wipe dry and leave for 24 hours and do it again. If the surface stays wet looking after the 20 minutes let it rest for a couple of days then move on the the part two stage which is exactly the same but with undiluted boiled linseed oil, you need four or five coats of this until the surface layers are totally saturated and won't absorb any more. Now you need to let that fully dry for about a week before moving onto the final stage.
Lightly sand the surface with 320 grit paper then wipe the dust off with a clean rag dampened with white spirit then wipe it dry. With a clean cloth apply the first layer of Danish oil, wet the surface, leave it for about 20 minutes then with the same cloth wipe the surface dry, leave it 24 hours to fully set then lighty sand with 320 grit. Do that again the next day. On the third day we change our technique slightly, we apply the oil and wait 20 minutes (or so depending on how quickly it dries), then with the same cloth rub the wet slightly sticky oil in circular and figure of eight patterns as in French polishing until your left with a swirl free finish, the oil will thicken during this and get pushed into the pores of the wood. The next day if the wood feels perfectly smooth then do the same again, if it feels slightly rough cut the surface back slightly with 0000 wire wool first. You might need four or five applications like that until you feel the surface is as you want it. Once the last coat is on leave it overnight then have a good look at it in the morning, it should be perfect, if not then with a very clean soft duster buff the surface in the same patterns as you did with the oil then it should be 100% perfect and with a high sheen. Once we're there we again set the wood aside for a week to fully set and become durable. If you want a satin finish then at this stage just cut the surface back with 0000 wire wool
That's about it, ongoing maintenance would be an occasional wipe with Teak oil as needed. Your surfaces should now be deep and full of lustre and be ultra hard wearing. Whether or not you want to do that on a bass body is up to you obviously, it's a long process but if you have a nice piece of wood it may be worth it.
Lastly a word of caution, those rags with oil on, dispose of them after every use either by laying out flat to dry before binning them or by burning them, oily rags can and often do spontaneously combust. I once did a job fitting out the local church with new fittings (alter etc.), I needed to do a little oiling there for some reason I forget but rather than take the rag back to the workshop I threw it into a public dustbin outside the church, four or five hours later that bin caught fire
Which just reminded me of the song"My Old Man's a Dustman"@Christine I just saw this for the first time. I found it interesting enough to show you. I'm not educated well enough to suggest it or anything... just "show & tell".
Check out the way they incorporated the volute into the headstock joint on this Lakland Skyline hollowbody...
Check out the way they incorporated the volute into the headstock joint on this Lakland Skyline hollowbody...
Last edited:
My old man's a dustman? No we can't blame @Chucky Stiletti it was me who threw it in the binYou mean someone threw the rag in the dustbin.
Messy tuners, good to know that is acceptable
Yes, took me a while to work out what I was looking at but I think it is very like the ones I did on the twins but much further up the neck. I'd love to see that from the side, I might investigate, thanks Mr Fix
Messy tuners, good to know that is acceptable
Yes, took me a while to work out what I was looking at but I think it is very like the ones I did on the twins but much further up the neck. I'd love to see that from the side, I might investigate, thanks Mr Fix
Here's where I got that from...
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Today I cut the fret slots on the three fretboards. I also inlaid the Rosewood blocks and fitted them, being wood they could be radiused the same time as the fretboard without worry. I've included a sequence photo of my marking procedure as a reminder but a full description can be found on the Les Paul Twins thread. After that I dimensioned the board and bound it.
Once that was all dry I started to radius it, initially I was going to use my jig for the router but I was out of other things to do today so I thought I'd have a go with the radius sanding block. It took 15 minuted to shape but I actually preferred that method, I felt a lot more in control of the amount of wood removed and it was easy to keep putting the straight edge on to check it was flat. I don't think it was an awful lot quicker either. Anyway, it was sanded down to 320 grit and thoroughly cleaned before slapping a bit of Teak oil on it. I have tried to photograph the figuring of the Satinwood, it's very difficult but it is truly stunning in the flesh, you can see how it got it's name.
Once that was all dry I started to radius it, initially I was going to use my jig for the router but I was out of other things to do today so I thought I'd have a go with the radius sanding block. It took 15 minuted to shape but I actually preferred that method, I felt a lot more in control of the amount of wood removed and it was easy to keep putting the straight edge on to check it was flat. I don't think it was an awful lot quicker either. Anyway, it was sanded down to 320 grit and thoroughly cleaned before slapping a bit of Teak oil on it. I have tried to photograph the figuring of the Satinwood, it's very difficult but it is truly stunning in the flesh, you can see how it got it's name.
I'm pleased with that, thankfully as it is mine that one
BassHappy
Supporting Member
I think that nice brown of the rosewood is so much warmer than the usual black or pearl blocks on a lighter colored fingerboard. Nice, very nice! Really like the satinwood.
Last edited:
Yup... that there is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!
I'm not sure if I've ever seen a Satinwood fretboard before, no doubt someone has used it, it seems a decent wood to use other than being very difficult to work but it takes an excellent finish and is as hard as Sri Lankan Ebony.
A little explanation about why I'm doing this, about 20 years ago I bought a guitar magazine on a regular basis. In one of them there was a feature about some hand made guitar with a look of the Fender Aerodyne Jazz to it, with a rippled maple (?) top and sprayed transparent red and a darkish maple neck/fretboard, it wasn't anything super special but that one guitar was truly pretty. Now I could see that with a Satinwood fretboard so I took a lump out of our stores and cut four of them and put them away in readiness for the day I would build my own. Now that day has come at last, now I just need to get that red the right colour!
A little explanation about why I'm doing this, about 20 years ago I bought a guitar magazine on a regular basis. In one of them there was a feature about some hand made guitar with a look of the Fender Aerodyne Jazz to it, with a rippled maple (?) top and sprayed transparent red and a darkish maple neck/fretboard, it wasn't anything super special but that one guitar was truly pretty. Now I could see that with a Satinwood fretboard so I took a lump out of our stores and cut four of them and put them away in readiness for the day I would build my own. Now that day has come at last, now I just need to get that red the right colour!
It's been a full day but a fruitful one
The Cherry constructional veneers were due to arrive this morning so I set out on a quest to get the necks glued. I planed, squared up and thicknessed the outer thick laminates, then thicknessed the inner Mahogany laminates. Just as I was finishing the veneers arrived I ordered enough for three necks but I was sent enough for seven, a bit of a misunderstanding somewhere, well they won't go to waste. I ripped those up into strips on the circular saw with an 80tpi blade.
Then after lunch I used a bench plane to clean up all the glueing surfaces, if you remember from the Les Paul build I don't consider a surface straight from the planer to be suitable for glueing, that's just me perhaps, it is done daily by many woodworkers without issue. After that (yes I was tired!) I glued them up, I changed glues for this, let me explain why. Titebond although it is considered the industry standard and with good cause it has a very short open time before it becomes less than ideal. As I had twenty surfaces to glue up in one go I needed a glue with a long open time, I chose Cascamite, a Urea formaldehyde glue, it's a powdered glue you mix with water, it is a very ridgid glue which has less tendency to "slip" when set than aliphatics so you can argue it is better for laminated neck
s but it will be no worse. It isn't an ideal glue for other aspects of luthery whilst it would be fantastic for glueing set necks you wouldn't want to use it because it is very very water resistant, you could never ever get it off again without a saw.
So anyway, glue, clamps and three necks glued up The last picture is the aftermath of the day in the workshop, I am far too tired to sweep it up this evening, a job for the morning I think
The difference in colour on the laminates is because some are planed and some sawn, they are all identical really
Three necks glued
Tomorrows first job!
The Cherry constructional veneers were due to arrive this morning so I set out on a quest to get the necks glued. I planed, squared up and thicknessed the outer thick laminates, then thicknessed the inner Mahogany laminates. Just as I was finishing the veneers arrived
I ordered enough for three necks but I was sent enough for seven, a bit of a misunderstanding somewhere, well they won't go to waste. I ripped those up into strips on the circular saw with an 80tpi blade.Then after lunch I used a bench plane to clean up all the glueing surfaces, if you remember from the Les Paul build I don't consider a surface straight from the planer to be suitable for glueing, that's just me perhaps, it is done daily by many woodworkers without issue. After that (yes I was tired!) I glued them up, I changed glues for this, let me explain why. Titebond although it is considered the industry standard and with good cause it has a very short open time before it becomes less than ideal. As I had twenty surfaces to glue up in one go I needed a glue with a long open time, I chose Cascamite, a Urea formaldehyde glue, it's a powdered glue you mix with water, it is a very ridgid glue which has less tendency to "slip" when set than aliphatics so you can argue it is better for laminated neck
s but it will be no worse. It isn't an ideal glue for other aspects of luthery whilst it would be fantastic for glueing set necks you wouldn't want to use it because it is very very water resistant, you could never ever get it off again without a saw.
So anyway, glue, clamps and three necks glued up
The last picture is the aftermath of the day in the workshop, I am far too tired to sweep it up this evening, a job for the morning I thinkThe difference in colour on the laminates is because some are planed and some sawn, they are all identical really
Three necks glued
Tomorrows first job!
