The futility of tone chasing

[jnewmark]

Been playing for 40+ years, and its always a learning process, in fact, I've learned more here on TalkBass, than I ever did previously. But I pretty much can dial in a " neighborhood " tone most of the time, unless I'm forced to use backline, which can be an adventure all on its own. I usually go for a solid low mid bass tone, as I mostly play Blues and Classic Soul, so its Duck Dunn most of the time. I can't imagine having to lug other stuff around like a pedal board loaded with effects, and then have to set that up every night. As far as basses go, I fell in love with the Fender passive Jazz a long time ago, with an occasional foray with a Fender P bass, mostly in the studio. So, the tone quest is pretty much routine now that I've finally figured it out, more or less, after 40 years !

 

[bassdude51]

The futility of tone chasing (I agree!)

 

[Rottie Roo Roo]

If people can't use the normal tone, then tone isn't the problem.

I can run 10 kilometres barefoot but I'd much rather get some Nikes

 

[Isaac_James]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the assertion that chasing a specific tone is futile. I think it serves a really useful purpose - getting to know exactly how to coax the sound you need for a given situation out of the rig you are using.

I don't have exactly the same sound every time I play. I'm always fiddling with a few knobs here and there to get it where I want it for the setting I am playing in. But spending hours tone chasing early on when I established my setup (and again thereafter when I'd add a new variable to the equation like different strings or a new pedal) means I can now dial in the sound I want quickly and easily because I know how my system works.

So while I agree with your broader premise that it's futile to get it exactly the same in every single context, I do think there is value in zooming in on the intricate details of how your pickup blend, technique, EQ and other pedal settings all work together. If nothing else you gain a deeper understanding of how you create your own sound.

 

[micguy]

As soon as we play live somewhere everything is pretty much out the window, because there are simply too many variables, and many of them are completely outside our control (this is of course a little different in a recording studio).

If you're playing through an amp in a lot of different rooms, this statement is true. If you play ampless gigs with in ears (I'm 100% ampless/in ears at this point), it changes everything - I practice at home through headphones, and live through in ears, using the same pedalboard as a signal chain at every gig. This means that all those variables that influence how you hear your sound in a live gig are literally gone - you have the SAME situation at every gig, and it's not too loud, or horribly reverberant, or poorly mixed, or ......

This change makes a BIG difference in the level of details that you can hear, the kind of control you have over your sound, and to what level you can "chase your tone".

Tone chasing is futile in some situations, but not at all in others.

 

[Wasnex]

Many of us are willing to go to great trouble and expense to find "that tone". Basses, amps, cabs, effects, strings - the list goes on. But how important is it really, and how realistic a goal is it?

I worked for a long time in the advertising and print industry, and I remember a repro guy who had been in the business for decades once telling me: "there's no such thing as accurate color reproduction". What he meant by that is that you can get in the ballpark, maybe even very close if you have total control of every aspect of the process, but that it was impossible to get it perfectly right every time, and there will always be variables that affect the result in various ways.

I've often reflected over the fact that bass playing is very similar. No matter how much we try to find the perfect tone, it really only gets us in the ballpark. As soon as we play live somewhere everything is pretty much out the window, because there are simply too many variables, and many of them are completely outside our control (this is of course a little different in a recording studio).

I actually don't mind too much. I'm quite happy if I can get my tone roughly where I want it to be, and I personally believe that the ability to get it 80-90% right in most settings is more important than chasing the last 10-20%, which I probably won't achieve anyway, and the audience won't care if I do. But I also realize that there are horses for courses here, and that YMM will, to some extent, V.

So is it crucial for you to have the tone exactly right, or do you adopt a more freewheeling attitude?

Yes I agree that chasing a very specific tone is an exercise in futility. That does not mean you should not chase tone. Rather it means you should learn to recognize and accept "good enough," rather than being overly obsessive about it. In other words tone is important, but it's a good idea to have reasonable expectations.

Using quality gear and knowing how to adjust it definitely helps. The gear you use should be capable of actually producing the basic tone qualities you prefer. But as you say, there are way too many external factors that are beyond our control for us to consistently produce one specific tone.

IMHO, it is essential to develop the necessary skill to asses the situation and make quick adjustments. Get your sound as good as you can, and then shift focus to playing.

I start with a sound that I think will work, and almost always have to make adjustments once everyone starts playing. Often the adjustment means cranking the mids even more and/or dialing down the lows. With experience you should be able to make the necessary changes fairly quickly and then lock your sound down.

I do have some basic tone qualities that I prefer. But it's often necessary to prioritize the qualities I find most important over other desirable qualities. The idea here, is you quickly reach a point where you can't improve one desired quality without degrading another desired quality; so you have to chose.

I prefer a very clear but smooth sound. My tone can be very bright, but I have pretty clean technique so you typically won't hear a lot of string noise and gank unless I want you to. I find that is is often necessary to trade fullness down low for clarity in the mids. So my adjustment are often more about balancing the sound across the range of my instrument, rather than chasing a specific tone.

I typically use my amp as solely a personal monitor, and my goal is typically to hear as well as I can, with the lowest possible volume. Reducing my stage volume means there is less indirect sound bouncing around and causing problems. Elevating and tilting the cab focuses the sound on my head and shortens the distance the sound has to travel; so essentially the direct sound will be louder at my ears.

 

[salmon256]

With any hobby in life, fishing, badminton, scuba, video games, tea, third wave coffee, swimming, crocheting etc. There will always be brands, markets and famous players/sportsman who will sponsor advertise or make videos/content on why you need their stuff or what they used. Not saying it's wrong at all to get with what others use but it becomes a rabbit hole of trying to be it all. I agree with learn what you have, tried, and buy what you can, and if you get somewhere there or near there, it's good. Example, my dad and I are shopping fr new baitcasters, and while I wanted some nice jumbo 500 dollar one (GAS I guess!) we are settling on more affordable ones, because the only downsize is they may break easily if handle badly. Same with swimming gear goggles I have too, I rather use more affordable stuff if it gets me in the park. And to finally connect it to bass, I have CV vibes, would I love a fender P-bass or some really awesome vintage one? Heck yes, but money and wallet can't do it, so it gets me the tone I want close and I feel that to have this dream of chasing for the "Real tone" is a bad idea and just a rabbit hole of money. As always, just my 2 cents and to everyone who disagrees - YMMV! Have a great day all.

 

[Ellery]

Ballpark. Live what's important is what comes thru the mix, I'm always on stage along with one or two distorted electric guitars so what I sound like solo is not what people on the floor will hear in the mix. Nuances will never translate to the listeners.

 

[mambo4]

So is it crucial for you to have the tone exactly right, or do you adopt a more freewheeling attitude?

I have learned to seek a good, reliable tone that requires a simple rig,
and try to set it up for maximum responsiveness to my technique

I accept the reality that , live or recording, at least 50% of the knobs my signal passes through won't be under my control. Reliable to me means a tone that difficult for other people to F up.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't chase tone…I catch it

 

[swink]

I try to get a consistent tone out of my bass, depending on the position where the strings are plucked I get sharp or round tones if these are muted or not I already get a very wide spectrum. I see an amp as a thing that projects this tone into space and makes sure my bass is heard.

If the sound is already right at the source you don't need much more to find an amplified tone that is good enough.

Many will debunk this myth, but for me (IMHO) the rule applies. A bad instrument can sound good through a good amplifier, but a good instrument can make a lesser amplifier sound good.

 

[trevcda]

To me, chasing tone is about realizing the sound that you have in your imagination.

Not you specifically but, generally speaking, a lot of that sound in your head is talent. More people should spend their time chasing talent, rather than tone. None of those boxes and pedals have talent in them.

 

[mikewalker]

"Perfect Is The Enemy Of Good"

In the studio, all bets are off and I will take some time making different sounds to suit the track.
But playing live I just want it "loud and clear enough to hear what I'm doing"...

 

[pbass2]

Many of us are willing to go to great trouble and expense to find "that tone". Basses, amps, cabs, effects, strings - the list goes on. But how important is it really, and how realistic a goal is it?

I worked for a long time in the advertising and print industry, and I remember a repro guy who had been in the business for decades once telling me: "there's no such thing as accurate color reproduction". What he meant by that is that you can get in the ballpark, maybe even very close if you have total control of every aspect of the process, but that it was impossible to get it perfectly right every time, and there will always be variables that affect the result in various ways.

I've often reflected over the fact that bass playing is very similar. No matter how much we try to find the perfect tone, it really only gets us in the ballpark. As soon as we play live somewhere everything is pretty much out the window, because there are simply too many variables, and many of them are completely outside our control (this is of course a little different in a recording studio).

I actually don't mind too much. I'm quite happy if I can get my tone roughly where I want it to be, and I personally believe that the ability to get it 80-90% right in most settings is more important than chasing the last 10-20%, which I probably won't achieve anyway, and the audience won't care if I do. But I also realize that there are horses for courses here, and that YMM will, to some extent, V.

So is it crucial for you to have the tone exactly right, or do you adopt a more freewheeling attitude?

The comment "there's no such thing as accurate color reproduction" points to my attitude about something like bass tone (or any instrument, or the whole mix for that matter). To me, the important thing if you're presenting your work/sound/whatever to other people is what you're communicating to them with it, not how "accurate" or "perfect" it might be in some other context (like in your head). What bass sound is "exactly right" is "what sound works here to get across what the music wants to communicate"? Your ideal tone you've spent time and $ chasing and finessing might work fine, but much(most?) of the time something much more common/generic works equally well(or better). In fact, I'd say for bass in most genres, this typically holds true more than for other instruments. So, I don't sweat it too much I guess is what I'm tryna say. It's not difficult to plug n play an appropriate bass sound without a lot of hand-wringing.

 

[Killing Floor]

I'd like to separate GAS from the pursuit of perfect tone.

I take a lot of pride in my bass tone and my clean and dirty guitar tone. Even my "angelic" voice, cough. But unless I'm recording I'm probably playing straight into amp.
Bottom line is in thousands of gigs I've never met another human life from who cares about my tone to the degree we discuss on TB. As long as my gear is working and I'm nearly in tune nobody would care. And if you're really honest, you can say the same.

But I still love new gear.

 

[Grinderman]

"If it's good to ya, it's gotta be good for ya!"

 

[Shindig73]

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. As long as there's the chance the tone you have created makes it to the room, I'm gonna try to put my best tone forward.

There have been times where I've heard my tone in the room, and it was glorious!

That said, 80-90% is my goal, since we all know: (1) perfection does not exist; and (2) the grass is always greener, i.e. people are never satisfied.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Many of us are willing to go to great trouble and expense to find "that tone". Basses, amps, cabs, effects, strings - the list goes on. But how important is it really, and how realistic a goal is it?

I worked for a long time in the advertising and print industry, and I remember a repro guy who had been in the business for decades once telling me: "there's no such thing as accurate color reproduction". What he meant by that is that you can get in the ballpark, maybe even very close if you have total control of every aspect of the process, but that it was impossible to get it perfectly right every time, and there will always be variables that affect the result in various ways.

I've often reflected over the fact that bass playing is very similar. No matter how much we try to find the perfect tone, it really only gets us in the ballpark. As soon as we play live somewhere everything is pretty much out the window, because there are simply too many variables, and many of them are completely outside our control (this is of course a little different in a recording studio).

I actually don't mind too much. I'm quite happy if I can get my tone roughly where I want it to be, and I personally believe that the ability to get it 80-90% right in most settings is more important than chasing the last 10-20%, which I probably won't achieve anyway, and the audience won't care if I do. But I also realize that there are horses for courses here, and that YMM will, to some extent, V.

So is it crucial for you to have the tone exactly right, or do you adopt a more freewheeling attitude?

Such wisdom in this post! Thank you, @JakobT.

 

[DirtDog]

It's a pecadillo within a fetish within a hobby.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

My tone always sounds exactly as I want it to- in the vast majority of live situations. Obviously stage size, the type of room you're playing and the type of music you're playing play a role in this.

Last night I listened to some mixes of 3 tracks I recorded about a month ago and I was VERY pleased with the my tone came out (Lakland bass).