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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#2,161
chadhargis said:
The Shaw DI uses Creative Audio Labs transformerless DI. If you aren't familiar with CAL, do some reading. The Grizzly Bass is the bomb!
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I do have a Grizzly. It's lovely. But I normally only equate CAL with the Grizzly. Not any sort of magical DI. But I chalk that up only to my ignorance of product.
 
#2,162
#2,163
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#2,165
chadhargis said:
YES! That's it! It's that meaty goodness you get when from the initial attack that you don't get with other preamps. Great way to describe it. You "feel" it.



I was in the same camp as you when I first saw the Oracle. Scratched it right off the list. Thinking, "All that money for a preamp, then I have to buy a DI? Put down the crack pipe!". But I read a post that explained why there is no DI built in. Made sense to me. Soemthing about doing a transformer in such a small enclosure would cause the builder to have to move to a PC board format and may have increased noise. If you look inside the Oracle...it's ALL HAND WIRED. It's very nice hardware and there really isn't much room left inside to put a DI.

Had I not already had a RNDI, I'd have passed on the Oracle, but I was running my SLO through the RNDI, so I figured what the hell...try the Oracle. Glad I did. It seems to be in the same realm sonically as the Noble and Shaw, but with better tone shaping than the Noble, and smaller and lighter than the Shaw. The SLO hangs right in there though. Never underestimate that piece of goodness. In a mix, I dare anyone to tell the SLO from any of the big dollar boutique tube stuff. I'm really still enamored with the SLO (especially after I put the Mullard tube in it). The Oracle and RNDI combo does sound better, but only to those who are actually listening. No one else will notice.
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Ok. Devil's advocate. If the builder wants to just hand build a few units that's his prerogative and I in no way judge that. Lots of botique guys in the guitar/bass world doing that and I've bought some of those products.

But...way more expensive to put in a low noise DI? Like the 200-300 minimum you guys are quoting for a really good quality DI to preserve the secret sauce in this preamp? And who wants to worry about additional connection points and board space with a high end preamp in 2020? Are you guys really telling me that this thing is that much better than what's out there already with expexted connections that it's really worth it? You can appreciate the difference on stage or in your in-ears? Also many quality botique builders will tell you that a quality PCB board is in no way a compromise and will allow you to do things that are needed these days. Not cheap mass produced Chinese junk but a company that does it well.

Anyway please don't read this as an angry rant. I don't really care that much that it doesn't have an xlr out but eating a line from a manufacturer about why they want to hand build what they want and not what should be standard these days is a stretch.
 
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#2,167
Ryno1330 said:
Ok. Devil's advocate. If the builder wants to just hand build a few units that's his prerogative and I in no way judge that. Lots of botique guys in the guitar/bass world doing that and I've bought some of those products.

But...way more expensive to put in a low noise DI? Like the 200-300 minimum you guys are quoting for a really good quality DI to preserve the secret sauce in this preamp? And who wants to worry about additional power supplies or connection points and board space with a high end preamp in 2020? Are you guys really telling me that this thing is that much better than what's out there already with expexted connections that it's really worth it? You can appreciate the difference on stage or in your in-ears? Also many quality botique builders will tell you that a quality PCB board is in no way a compromise and will allow you to do things that are needed these days. Not cheap mass produced Chinese junk but a company that does it well.

Anyway please don't read this as an angry rant. I don't really care that much that it doesn't have an xlr out but eating a line from a manufacturer about why they want to hand build what they want and not what should be standard these days is a stretch.
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Micah has three reasons for it not just one. Noise was one reason.

And going only 1% into the rabbit hole that some of the others have, I'll say this:

If the piece of gear makes you smile when you use it, it's "worth it".

I have a Broughton P-15, feel very lucky about that. But I still want/ if I didn't have Broughton, an Oracle or Zephyr.

Coming from playing an early '70's SVT/ flatback for many years, the whole thing push's and pulls with your bass, strings, hands, it's a feel thing with some of these pre's to me.
 
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#2,168
davelowell2 said:
Micah has three reasons for it not just one. Noise was one reason.

And going only 1% into the rabbit hole that some of the others have, I'll say this:

If the piece of gear makes you smile when you use it, it's "worth it".

I have a Broughton P-15, feel very lucky about that. But I still want/ if I didn't have Broughton, an Oracle or Zephyr.

Coming from playing an early '70's SVT/ flatback for many years, the whole thing push's and pulls with your bass, strings, hands, it's a feel thing with some of these pre's to me.
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To be fair he only has two reasons - replacing other non-di units isn't really a reason.
But I certainly appreciate and am with you on your feel answer because that's where the difference often is. While a lot of my playing is through studio monitors or headphones for recording, there's a reason the feel of a tube amp (whether bass or my 68 Fender Pro Reverb or Marshall) really inspires you and makes you smile.
 
#2,170
I use the cheapest thing and still love this thread. When @chadhargis sensibly opines that the Shift Line might be indistinguishable from the Noble to audiences, I would see that and raise the Dr J Sparrow. PA support, coverage and quality for small-time me is a little different, however.
 
#2,171
Ryno1330 said:
To be fair he only has two reasons - replacing other non-di units isn't really a reason.
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I don't get why you say it's not a reason, but ok. Does he make the Octling or Bullet still? That's a reason.

Arkham Sound said:
Couple reasons.
1. I've offered a few basic/budget preamps in the past without DI (Octling, Bullet), this is meant to replace those.
2. Without going full-on PCB there's not enough room to shoehorn an audio transformer and XLR jack in there.
3. Audio transformer this close to a power transformer = relentless 60Hz hum. Trying to mitigate that would make this thing pretty expensive...
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I think you have to add in all 3 for a complete picture of why he didn't.

I mean, they're his reasons whether you agree with them or not. That's his quote.
 
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#2,173
Still catching up with the latest and greatest in this thread after unsubscribing for a while. Some cool options. Gassing for a Shaw was what brought me to this thread early on.
Intrigued with the Zephyr, and was surprised to see it's form factor was rack mount considering the main focus of this thread send to be boxes. Inspired by the Portaflex series. I own a PF-20T, and also an SVP Pro ll. The Zephyr would have to be very similar tonally. Can anyone confirm this?
 
#2,174
pisces_bass said:
My TH pedal is 13.2 x 11.1 x 4.2 cm. Hope that helps.
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I think it might fit perfectly. The Tone Hammer is one of those pedals I always wanted to try but somehow I never did. It's EQ is extremely powerful, DI sounds great, it has a built-in boost or "dirt channel" if you want, it's versatile and very simple to use. And it's not too expensive. Maybe I should grab one and see how I like it.
 
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#2,175
Hypercaffium said:
I think it might fit perfectly. The Tone Hammer is one of those pedals I always wanted to try but somehow I never did. It's EQ is extremely powerful, DI sounds great, it has a built-in boost or "dirt channel" if you want, it's versatile and very simple to use. And it's not too expensive. Maybe I should grab one and see how I like it.
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Be careful using the AGS channel as a boost... There are several posts on the early portion of this thread that indicate it is better to run both channels simultaneously. Unless something changed since I had one last.
 
#2,177
davelowell2 said:
I don't get why you say it's not a reason, but ok. Does he make the Octling or Bullet still? That's a reason.



I think you have to add in all 3 for a complete picture of why he didn't.

I mean, they're his reasons whether you agree with them or not. That's his quote.
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Sorry to argue semantics but it's a reason he provided but not for audio or logistical reasons. It's no different than Ford saying "nope, we're not putting cruise control (or pick a standard but not vital feature) on the Mustang because it's replacing the Pinto and it didn't have cruise". Same exact logic.
 
#2,178
Hypercaffium said:
I'm not sure what you're saying. The AGS circuit can be activated only if the pedal is on, so they must work together.
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I think what he is saying is that the Tone Hammer doesn't work too well if you are envisioning the AGS button as an overdrive to complement the clean "channel." Reason being is that the levels are significantly different.

More so, think of the Tone Hammer as a single channel preamp that can be either clean or dirty, pick one. Doesn't switch back and forth too well.

The Tone Hammer DI is a fantastic piece of gear though. I used one for a long time. I found the AGS circuit to be really good when I dialed it in for a slightly low-hair, vintagey vibe.
 
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#2,179
Ryno1330 said:
Sorry to argue semantics but it's a reason he provided but not for audio or logistical reasons. It's no different than Ford saying "nope, we're not putting cruise control (or pick a standard but not vital feature) on the Mustang because it's replacing the Pinto and it didn't have cruise". Same exact logic.
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My thought is the only one of those stated reasons I buy is about the 60hz noise from the transformers being that close the expense part is more in rnd time then physical parts then the other reason I could see would be limiting the physical size imho. To me stating it was just his preferred design would have been a better solution.
 
#2,180
Ryno1330 said:
Sorry to argue semantics but it's a reason he provided but not for audio or logistical reasons.
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@Arkham Sound

I can't speak for him but it sounds like replacing the Octling and Bullet with the Oracle IS a logistical thing.

Nothing is everything to everybody. Maybe build your own?
 
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