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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#5,081
Matt Dean said:
Thanks Tom... for the first time in many years, I'm thinking about moving away from Mesa for amplification. How do you think the The Beast will play with a Subway 115/210 stack?
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Oh, it would be fantastic. It has a very "tube influenced" tone, in that it has a lot of (very good, IMHO) harmonic content and warmth, but it is still plenty clear. It's one of those heads where the longer you listen to it, the more attractive it sounds - and it starts off pretty darned attractive! It can take a little bit to learn how to really dial in the tone stack, as the individual controls are a bit inter-related, but it's not too hard to get the gist.
 
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#5,083
Thanks @MAFbass1992, it's perfect. I think about a million people should take lessons from you on that.
chadhargis said:
The Oracle signal path is:
Tuner -> Buffer (used to level the signal for various basses) -> LA-1A Comp -> Oracle -> microThumpinator -> RNDI
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LetItGrowTone said:
I would hope to know which item in the analog chain softened the lowest notes (because that's what I didn't like, compared to the other track).
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Well, I don't think it was the Oracle at "fault". Must be one of the others.
 
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#5,084
Continuation of the previous post...
The lowest notes in the Pod track are very clear.
The lowest notes in the analog track are not as clear.
I'm not saying that's good or bad, just focusing on that fact.
Listening to other recordings, such as @MAFbass1992's above, I don't blame the Oracle.

So, on behalf of the first 251 pages of this thread, I humbly and gratefully hope that @chadhargis will isolate which of the other items in that analog chain is causing this, and let us know. Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily good or bad.
 
#5,085
LetItGrowTone said:
Continuation of the previous post...
The lowest notes in the Pod track are very clear.
The lowest notes in the analog track are not as clear.
I'm not saying that's good or bad, just focusing on that fact.
Listening to other recordings, such as @MAFbass1992's above, I don't blame the Oracle.

So, on behalf of the first 251 pages of this thread, I humbly and gratefully hope that @chadhargis will isolate which of the other items in that analog chain is causing this, and let us know. Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily good or bad.
Click to expand...

Comparing the Pod Go to anything analog is tough because the beauty of the Pod is that it's a "system". It's not just a preamp. It's a compressor, an EQ, a preamp, a power amp, a cabinet, a mic, a noise gate, and more.

I know the Oracle is based on the James tone stack. So I may be able to find a preamp model on the Pod based on that and do an apples to apples comparison.

But that's not really a fair comparison. It's like asking an olympic power lifter to only use one arm. The Oracle is a great preamp....and that's it. Mine is not a DI. It doesn't really do distortion. It doesn't do cab sim. It's just a preamp...and a very good one. If you were recording direct to a DAW and were going to use plug ins to get your tone right, that is a strong argument for a good solid preamp.

But live, when you're covering different tones on the fly, and you have to carry it around and you have to stuff it in a case and worry about bumped knobs that all have to be checked before the gig. Taking these factors into consideration, a digital rig just stomps anything analog.

As far as the low end is concerned. It's probably just the EQ on the Pod that has the bottom end pushed a bit. I have created some old school patches using a Fender Bassman and a B15 that are relatively weak on the low end, just like those old Motown recordings. Very low mid focused and they sound dead up glorious.

The only downside is that the tweaking is endless. You are never "done".
 
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#5,089
Staccato said:
Pod Go seems off topic for this thread.
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While I can completely understand what you're saying, I have to respectfully disagree. Though it is a multi-fx pedal, the main function of my HX Stomp (similar to POD Go) is to serve as a preamp and on numerous occasions I've used it as a D.I. directly into the board to feed FOH. If we're on a tight stage and I don't have room for anything else, this is my go to. All the other FX are great and all, but they're just icing on the cake. I look at it as a single solution digital box with a HUGE variety of amp/preamp choices.
 
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#5,090
Mr. voodoobass said:
The good part about "the tweaking is endless", is that you don't really feel the need for new pedals. You hear something new and cool lol, sit down and tweak for a while and often end up with something pretty close.
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This has been my experience with the Stomp. Especially when it comes to overdrives and simple chorus/reverb/delays.
 
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#5,091
Staccato said:
Pod Go seems off topic for this thread.
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As the OP I grant permission to myself to hijack my own thread. Lol!

The Pod Go is a preamp, just as much as any other preamp. One of the early things I posted about in the thread was my experience with the LeBass and C.A.B. which includes cab sim. The NuX and SLO have cab sims. Many of the preamps discussed here have distortion/overdrive circuits.

The Pod Go is a preamp and DI that just happens to have lots of EQ and effects options. The amp and cab sims really aren't much more than active EQ programs that react to input.
 
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#5,096
I have the NUX bass preamp, and I am loving it. Very clever design with the switchable ir. I'm using the ALG model and cabsim, and it's great for anything. Can be set to ampegish scoop and clank, or warm midrangey rounded goodness. Pedal is whisper quiet, and with the headphone out and aux in is a great silent practice tool. My only knock is that the drive is a bit flat and 2d compared to an analog preamp (the pedal is fully digital, but it's definitely a really nice drive for digital, sounds warm and enhances other effects with the extra harmonic content it adds. Upgrading it isn't a priority, but whatever replaces it needs aux in, headphone out, impulse response, flexible eq, and a nice warm harmonic drive. The new Darkglass vintage microtubes ultra with aux in is a candidate, any others I should be aware of?
 
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#5,097
Stinga1990 said:
I have the NUX bass preamp, and I am loving it. Very clever design with the switchable ir. I'm using the ALG model and cabsim, and it's great for anything. Can be set to ampegish scoop and clank, or warm midrangey rounded goodness. Pedal is whisper quiet, and with the headphone out and aux in is a great silent practice tool. My only knock is that the drive is a bit flat and 2d compared to an analog preamp (the pedal is fully digital, but it's definitely a really nice drive for digital, sounds warm and enhances other effects with the extra harmonic content it adds. Upgrading it isn't a priority, but whatever replaces it needs aux in, headphone out, impulse response, flexible eq, and a nice warm harmonic drive. The new Darkglass vintage microtubes ultra with aux in is a candidate, any others I should be aware of?
Click to expand...

I still have my budget baby board built around the NuX. I have very little money in it (but more than my Pod Go cost) and it's lightweight and sounds great. But it can't compete with the Pod Go.

I'm very critical when it comes to tone, but I'm also not a Luddite. Tube gear always sounded better to my ears. But the modeling technology is exponentially better than it was even 5 years ago. Used to be that you went digital for the convenience and flexibility while giving up some tone. Not anymore.

It's very similar to film cameras versus digital cameras. In the early years, no respected photographer would have used a digital camera. Now nearly all do as well as video too. Movies are shot on digital cameras. While some may wax poetically about the look of the old film cameras, they simply can't match the quality of today's digital offerings.
 
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#5,098
Ok, I guess I can give my own summary of the first 251 pages of the thread, based on what I've read here. I don't own any of these items but have owned and built similar ones.

Summary: Oracle+RNDI

If this is about as good as it gets then it's good news because it means that the ultimate on the tube side is a high-quality implementation of ideas already known and loved for at least 50 years (so I can understand it and build something similar if I choose).

So, if
- @chadhargis sells his previous setup and loses that established baseline against which to test the digital stuff,
and
- since he also doesn't want to test *just* the (clean as possible) Oracle+RNDI against the POD, etc. (for reasons he already gave, which I understand),
then
- I agree with @Staccato who said that the topic has changed. I suggest a new thread! Oh, it will be popular too. :)
 
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#5,099
LetItGrowTone said:
Ok, I guess I can give my own summary of the first 251 pages of the thread, based on what I've read here. I don't own any of these items but have owned and built similar ones.

Summary: Oracle+RNDI

If this is about as good as it gets then it's good news because it means that the ultimate on the tube side is a high-quality implementation of ideas already known and loved for at least 50 years (so I can understand it and build something similar if I choose).

So, if
- @chadhargis sells his previous setup and loses that established baseline against which to test the digital stuff,
and
- since he also doesn't want to test *just* the (clean as possible) Oracle+RNDI against the POD, etc. (for reasons he already gave, which I understand),
then
- I agree with @Staccato who said that the topic has changed. I suggest a new thread! Oh, it will be popular too. :)
Click to expand...


That's the beauty of Talkbass...anyone can create a topic and run with it.

I started this thread to gain feedback on my journey to find the best preamp for me. The thread morphed to include compressors, EQs, cab sims, etc. It became more about "tone" than just preamps and has been that way for years. I never had any idea the thread would grow to the size it has and that there is so much wonderful knowledge poured into it. If I can change the topic...maybe it should be "The Great Bass Tone Comparison", but that would ignore the fact that we're focused primarily on gear in the thread. Tone comes from the player, their fingers, strings, pickups, and the bass itself. I'd like to keep things focused solely on pedal board type gear. No rack or studio equipment. That's a whole different ballgame.

In my mind I evaluate every piece of kit on how it would preform in a live performance setting. I've never done any recording in a studio, so I have no point of reference for that process. I've also never played in a band that performed all original material, so I've been in situations where I have to mimic a particular bass tone...on the fly. I've learned how to do much of that with my fingers, hand placement, selecting the right bass, and playing with a pick when required. But it's so nice to just click a button on my board and BOOM....I get an entirely different tone.
 
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#5,100
I'm searching for an ampless rig. Appealing to the fine opinions of the TB infoshare:

Warm, rich , with clarity and punch is what I'm after (think Dave Hope from Kansas) Compression would be nice. Warm overdrive would be welcome (no distortion / Fuzz)I'm not needing lots of effects. (Country / Rock covers) as we're moving towards IEM Casino gigs in the near future.

I currently have an ART Pro Channel II (2 space rack) and it's great to have in the rack with the PA (when using my own PA , for which I run sound) and my wireless is in the rack along with the mic w(ireless, and the Soundcraft UI24r.
I have access to adjustable HPF/LPF on each channel.

"Normal" AWSOME rig is a Mesa WD800 into a Audio Kinesis TC 115. Running fairly flat EQ. Mids are my huckleberry, and play 1/2 step detuned 5 strings.

I can get close to the "tone" of the Mesa to FOH with the ART but not the feel or richness of the Mesa rig.
Having the ART in the rack is limiting its use to only gigs where I'm running sound.

I'm thinking of a pedal to replace the ART. (which will go to the classifieds - hit me up if you want it now) to allow me to use the same equip elsewhere when packing light with good FOH.

I'd like a speaker sim to give it "space" and room feel for under $500.00
Loadable 3rd party IR's would be nice

Contenders:
Mesa Subway Plus (adjustable HPF big plus)
Two Notes LeBass (speaker sim one desirable aspect) w/? torpedo?- which is over budget
Pod Go (- no XLR big drawback)
API TranzFormer (neither Sim nor HPF , then again- API!)
Ashdown OriginAL Valve Pre DI Pedal
GK Plex (not sure it's "mellow/warm" enough)
LR Baggs Stadium
RMI Basswitch (max budget)
OR?


**Addendum if it has a software interface it must be Mac/iOS compatible
 
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