The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Btbp]

Way back at the beginning of this thread I posted some videos of some bass players I thought had great tone. Jimmy Johnson, bass player for James Taylor comes to mind. Tiran Porter of the Doobies (now John Cowan...who I also love). Whoever plays the bass on the track "Tin Man" by America....ooooh wee..that bass sounds fire! "Imaginary Lover" by Atlanta Rhythm Secton...Paul Goddard's tone is spot on! Deep, fat, warm and it sits right in the mix where it needs too.

I really like when specific examples are given like this, and I kind of asked for this a few times in one of the Dirt threads as I'm a Noob for those variances in O/D, Fuzz, etc.

For the warmth thing, a couple come to mind, which surprise me somewhat because they are both J Basses and not Precisions like I would expect.

 

[chadhargis]

I really like when specific examples are given like this, and I kind of asked for this a few times in one of the Dirt threads as I'm a Noob for those variances in O/D, Fuzz, etc.

For the warmth thing, a couple come to mind, which surprise me somewhat because they are both J Basses and not Precisions like I would expect.

Both great bands. Three Dog Night has several great songs that feature a killer bass line. One that jumps to mind is "Sure As I'm Sittin' Here".

 

[SteveC]

That long post is a great one @chadhargis and I agree with a lot of it. I played the first set tonight with the HXS. Compressor and Aguilar. It sounded really good. Then I swapped to the Empress/REDDI for the 2nd set. Same bass all night. Guitar player said it was really close, but he could tell a difference and the was no denying the REDDI hit harder. Now in fairness I haven’t spent a lot of time diving into the HXS. I’m sure I could get it even closer.

I’m still torn. I like what I have. It sounds awesome. It’s paid for. My cabling is all set up for it. The small size and endless potential of the HXS is of course tempting. But then how many sounds do so really need? Only I can answer that I guess. My Pelican case isn’t that bad, and it all sits under my synth and just works. I think all o would change is maybe adding something like an Empress Para eq pedal for some tone options and high/low pass filters to tighten things up. Would still fit on my Nano and I have 2 power spots left on my DC5.

 

[Heikki L.]

Ok amigos....

Since I mentioned America's "Tin Man" earlier, I remembered doing a comparison between a bunch of preamps with that song some time ago....so I dug them up.

Here's the challenge....I'm going to post some clips of well know preamps...tube and analog...then I'm going to put up two "mystery" clips...one will be the Ampeg PF-50T tube amp and the other will be the HX Stomp running the SVT emulator. Which one is which? Does the tube DI sound as good as the real amp or the emulation?

You be the judge!

Arkham Oracle with RNDI

NuX Melvin Lee Davis

Nordstrand Starlifter

Mystery #1

Mystery #2

Thanks for the samples! Didn’t have enough time to listen through the examples properly so here is my really quick&dirty top 5.

Arkham
Mystery 2
Starlifter
Mystery 1
Nux

 

[TheArchitect]

That long post is a great one @chadhargis and I agree with a lot of it. I played the first set tonight with the HXS. Compressor and Aguilar. It sounded really good. Then I swapped to the Empress/REDDI for the 2nd set. Same bass all night. Guitar player said it was really close, but he could tell a difference and the was no denying the REDDI hit harder. Now in fairness I haven’t spent a lot of time diving into the HXS. I’m sure I could get it even closer.

I’m still torn. I like what I have. It sounds awesome. It’s paid for. My cabling is all set up for it. The small size and endless potential of the HXS is of course tempting. But then how many sounds do so really need? Only I can answer that I guess. My Pelican case isn’t that bad, and it all sits under my synth and just works. I think all o would change is maybe adding something like an Empress Para eq pedal for some tone options and high/low pass filters to tighten things up. Would still fit on my Nano and I have 2 power spots left on my DC5.

All I can add is that in the digital world, its very easy to get lost looking for more and better and not actually get any playing done. I walked that path with guitars and "paralysis by analysis" was a very real thing. Why spend time and money trying to get closer to what you already have and like? REDDI/ZOD/NOBLE are the gold standards. Where else can you go from the top?

 

[Derek Williams]

its very easy to lost looking for more and better and not actually get any playing done.

 

[SteveC]

All I can add is that in the digital world, its very easy to get lost looking for more and better and not actually get any playing done. I walked that path with guitars and "paralysis by analysis" was a very real thing. Why spend time and money trying to get closer to what you already have and like? REDDI/ZOD/NOBLE are the gold standards. Where else can you go from the top?

I am a little afraid of that. I know it takes some time to get patches how you like them. When I first got the HXS I spent 3 hours without even realizing it, and that was just going through amps, cabs and compressors to get a basic patch to start with. I know you can download/buy patches from people, and that may be a good starting point, but to make adjustments you have to know what all the different variables are, what they do to sound, and how to adjust them. You'll of course learn more as you work with it. Maybe I just don't want to do that? IDK.

Sometimes I think I'm chasing something that I already have. I've done it before. Having a really compact rig is cool and all, but a Nano and REDDI is still smaller than many pedal boards I see. And you like what you like. Am I trying to adopt something because "everyone else" is doing it? Digital is probably the future. I mean, why would you haul around more than you need to, right? The drummer is on an electric kit. Synth player obviously digital. Guitar player still uses a fairly large board but no amp. Has a Strymon pedal of some kind for his amp modeling.

Analysis paralysis.

 

[jacoby75]

That long post is a great one @chadhargis and I agree with a lot of it. I played the first set tonight with the HXS. Compressor and Aguilar. It sounded really good. Then I swapped to the Empress/REDDI for the 2nd set. Same bass all night. Guitar player said it was really close, but he could tell a difference and the was no denying the REDDI hit harder. Now in fairness I haven’t spent a lot of time diving into the HXS. I’m sure I could get it even closer.

I’m still torn. I like what I have. It sounds awesome. It’s paid for. My cabling is all set up for it. The small size and endless potential of the HXS is of course tempting. But then how many sounds do so really need? Only I can answer that I guess. My Pelican case isn’t that bad, and it all sits under my synth and just works. I think all o would change is maybe adding something like an Empress Para eq pedal for some tone options and high/low pass filters to tighten things up. Would still fit on my Nano and I have 2 power spots left on my DC5.

I understand the point would be to have one or the other and not have to carry both around, but it seems to me the best of both worlds would be to play the Stomp into the REDDI. I have seen many shots of people running a stump into a noble. I’m sure the combination would be face melting.

 

[TheArchitect]

I am a little afraid of that. I know it takes some time to get patches how you like them. When I first got the HXS I spent 3 hours without even realizing it, and that was just going through amps, cabs and compressors to get a basic patch to start with. I know you can download/buy patches from people, and that may be a good starting point, but to make adjustments you have to know what all the different variables are, what they do to sound, and how to adjust them. You'll of course learn more as you work with it. Maybe I just don't want to do that? IDK.

Sometimes I think I'm chasing something that I already have. I've done it before. Having a really compact rig is cool and all, but a Nano and REDDI is still smaller than many pedal boards I see. And you like what you like. Am I trying to adopt something because "everyone else" is doing it? Digital is probably the future. I mean, why would you haul around more than you need to, right? The drummer is on an electric kit. Synth player obviously digital. Guitar player still uses a fairly large board but no amp. Has a Strymon pedal of some kind for his amp modeling.

Analysis paralysis.

I ended up with a Strymon Iridium for guitar because it has 3 choices at most. Very amp like in that regard. You can try different cab IR's but its not needed. Compare that vs a Fractal or a Kemper? Great pieces but I learned 20 years ago on a POD that I cannot go there if I want to actually get anything done.

 

[SteveC]

I understand the point would be to have one or the other and not have to carry both around, but it seems to me the best of both worlds would be to play the Stomp into the REDDI. I have seen many shots of people running a stump into a noble. I’m sure the combination would be face melting.

It has crossed my mind. I'm sure it would be awesome. Ian Allison, for one, uses an HXS and a Noble. There are many others on here as well. That's the only combination I didn't get to try last night.

The gig actually got cut short. Little miscommunication about end time. Turns out we were only supposed to play 2 hours, not 3, so we just played an extra 30 minutes as people were dancing and stuff. It would have been fun to try them together.

 

[chadhargis]

All I can add is that in the digital world, its very easy to get lost looking for more and better and not actually get any playing done. I walked that path with guitars and "paralysis by analysis" was a very real thing. Why spend time and money trying to get closer to what you already have and like? REDDI/ZOD/NOBLE are the gold standards. Where else can you go from the top?

I have been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. But that was several years ago and the technology just wasn't quite there. I did all the tweaking of amp sims, cab sims, mic modeling, mic placement, etc. It seemed like every time I got a tone I liked, the next time tried it there was something I didn't like.

Then I bought the Pod Go. I had very low expectations for it and I picked it up used for a great price. I downloaded a few presets and got a tone I liked very quickly. I used the Pod Go for quite awhile before picking up a HX Stomp. I never really thought I needed anything else because I was so happy with the Pod Go. Slowly I started selling all my other gear until I was just using the Pod Go. My bandmates liked my tone so much both guitar players bought a Pod Go.

The HX Stomp has MANY more options than the Pod Go...but really, the Pod Go is all I need, but the HX Stomp is so small and compact you can toss it in your gig bag and play any gig you want.

I never tweak my presets anymore. I primarily use two presets. One is an SVT and the other is called "Studio Tube DI" which I downloaded and tweaked just a bit to my liking. The SVT obviously had that Ampeg tone, but the other preset is pretty clean.

I really find no need to mess with any of my presets any longer. In fact, I have been sending them out to other people so they don't have to futz with their HX Stomp or Pod Go...just load in my presets...salt to taste....and rock and roll.

 

[scubaduba]

And then the Quad Cortex takes things to yet another level. You can literally capture your favorite amp, preamps, and pedals into the Quad Cortex. The captures are virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The process of the captures is cool.

So one day I can have a certain preamp and a certain tube DI like a Khan or REDDI or Noble as my DI. Another day I can choose a different combo. And there are tons of captures available on the Neural Cloud.

 

[chadhargis]

And then the Quad Cortex takes things to yet another level. You can literally capture your favorite amp, preamps, and pedals into the Quad Cortex. The captures are virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The process of the captures is cool.

So one day I can have a certain preamp and a certain tube DI like a Khan or REDDI or Noble as my DI. Another day I can choose a different combo. And there are tons of captures available on the Neural Cloud.

I'd love to have something like that. I have looked at them as well as the Kemper, and it's just too rich for my blood at the moment.

But ultimately....that's the ticket. Find a rig you like, profile it, and rock.

 

[Yamarc]

I'd love to have something like that. I have looked at them as well as the Kemper, and it's just too rich for my blood at the moment.

But ultimately....that's the ticket. Find a rig you like, profile it, and rock.

Does the Quad Cortex have a database of common IR patches (e.g., Noble, REDDI, Effect pedals, etc), or does a person have to purchase / obtain the pedal to capture and reproduce a sample in the QC unit?

 

[Derek Williams]

Does the Quad Cortex have a database of common IR patches (e.g., Noble, REDDI, Effect pedals, etc), or does a person have to purchase / obtain the pedal to capture and reproduce a sample in the QC unit?

Captures and presets can be publicly shared and searched in the app.

 

[SteveC]

I still debate an HXS or HXS-XL. If I want it to be my only pedal - tuner, preamp, DI and IEM device - it seems like an XL with the extra switches makes sense?

 

[ThisYouCanTrust]

Ok amigos....

Since I mentioned America's "Tin Man" earlier, I remembered doing a comparison between a bunch of preamps with that song some time ago....so I dug them up.

Here's the challenge....I'm going to post some clips of well know preamps...tube and analog...then I'm going to put up two "mystery" clips...one will be the Ampeg PF-50T tube amp and the other will be the HX Stomp running the SVT emulator. Which one is which? Does the tube DI sound as good as the real amp or the emulation?

You be the judge!

Arkham Oracle with RNDI

NuX Melvin Lee Davis

Nordstrand Starlifter

Mystery #1

Mystery #2

The first one is the best one, definitely.
It brings out some harmonics during those mini-slides at the beginning which the others just don't have.
Well the starlifter has it a bit, but it doesn't have enough bass and sounds very dry, not my thing (in this mix, with these settings, could be different otherwise of course).

Both mystery samples are interesting on several levels, it's not the type of sound I would go for but once the voice comes in in fact it's the type of sound which best supports the song imho, so there's that.

I would say #1 is the ampeg ?
It's hard to say, it has a bigger and wider bass boost than #2, this is the biggest difference I hear personally, which is already saying a lot on the respective qualities of both sounds.

#2 seems a bit more constant and/or timid, but I would think this is what you'd want for that type of mellow/pillowy sound anyway, so that could be a plus or a minus, I don't know.
I'm afraid this is just too far from the type I sound I usually work with to tell for sure

Question though, this was several takes, right ?

 

[chadhargis]

The first one is the best one, definitely.
It brings out some harmonics during those mini-slides at the beginning which the others just don't have.
Well the starlifter has it a bit, but it doesn't have enough bass and sounds very dry, not my thing (in this mix, with these settings, could be different otherwise of course).

Both mystery samples are interesting on several levels, it's not the type of sound I would go for but once the voice comes in in fact it's the type of sound which best supports the song imho, so there's that.

I would say #1 is the ampeg ?
It's hard to say, it has a bigger and wider bass boost than #2, this is the biggest difference I hear personally, which is already saying a lot on the respective qualities of both sounds.

#2 seems a bit more constant and/or timid, but I would think this is what you'd want for that type of mellow/pillowy sound anyway, so that could be a plus or a minus, I don't know.
I'm afraid this is just too far from the type I sound I usually work with to tell for sure

Question though, this was several takes, right ?

I guess enough time has passed to let the cat out of the bag.

To my ears..of the first three...the NuX seems to have better tone...but then again...it's a digital emulation device. I haven't had that pedal in a long while. The Starlifter I owned for about a week and was so unimpressed with it I flipped it. It's the only thing Carey Nordstrand has made that I haven't liked.

Of the mystery samples.....#1 is the HX Stomp #2 is of course the Ampeg PF-50T.

Of all the examples....the HX Stomp brings that big fat round bottom end on those opening notes. That's the power I'm always looking for in my tone. Not boomy or farty....but BIG and powerful. I want to FEEL the notes, not just hear them. The Ampeg PF-50T is absolutely beautiful too, but I'm running the bass at about 2 o'clock on the dial. If I push it any further it gets a little too muddy for my taste. The PF-50T does have a smoother top end. I'm cutting some top end on the HX but on the Ampeg I actually like the way it sounds, so I'm not cutting anything. The tubes seem to bring a natural compression that makes them less brittle.

 

[Derek Williams]

I still debate an HXS or HXS-XL. If I want it to be my only pedal - tuner, preamp, DI and IEM device - it seems like an XL with the extra switches makes sense?

I’d go with the XL. I currently have the standard one as a portable practice rig (when I’m away from my Quad Cortex), but it doesn’t have enough buttons to be a complete pedalboard replacement.

 

[SteveC]

I’d go with the XL. I currently have the standard one as a portable practice rig (when I’m away from my Quad Cortex), but it doesn’t have enough buttons to be a complete pedalboard replacement.

I'm leaning that way. I like how small the HXS is - fits in my gig bag. I think the HXS-XL would still fit - maybe in the other pocket. Might have to actually measure.