The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Cuzzie]

I know someone who has one/tried one who also has a LeBass and as far as I remember they compare favourably and the LR Baggs is a good piece of kit, but honestly I can give no more than that.

I have so many pre-amps I couldn’t/shouldn’t really do any more!

 

[chadhargis]

I have so many pre-amps I couldn’t/shouldn’t really do any more!

In all honesty, no one listening to me play is going to go, "Ooooh....that's a tube preamp". No one really notices the bass tone other than bass players. I do, however, listen to comments from band mates. When I feel like my tone is good, either by my own doing or the sound guy is doing a great job, I get more compliments. 90% of that is just being out front in the mix. Doesn't matter how good your tone is if the sound guy buries you in the mix. But it's a chicken and egg type thing. If you give the sound guy a great signal, and great tone, and he doesn't have to do anything but move the slider...you're more likely to be heard.

MORE TWEAKING WITH LE BASS
So one thing I'm discovering with the Le Bass is how great the B Channel is. I love the A channel, and for a clean fat tone, it's great. But I have the B Channel set up with only a little tube overdrive if I dig in. If I play soft, it's a really nice round tone. I am looking forward to getting the Torpedo C.A.B. so I can set up MIDI commands to change the cab selection and output volume when I switch between the four modes on the Le Bass. It's going to be like carrying 4 separate bass rigs with me to every gig.

The MXR Bass DI+ shipped out yesterday. Should have it either Saturday or Monday. Looking forward to trying it out, but I'm very skeptical that it can out do the Le Bass. I still have the Tone Hammer and AGRO pedals, and I want to try them with the Torpedo C.A.B.....I'm betting that will yield excellent results. The Cab sim on the Le Bass is really what gives it the edge in my opinion. It does something that an EQ can't do. I hear the Torpedo is even better as it's all digital, where the Le Bass is all analog.

 

[Cuzzie]

I love how things are totally horses for courses.

I messed about extensively with the B channel but could not quite nail it for me, but the A channel is sublime and is always on with me.

Glad you are finding it a joy to play with

 

[JustSomeDude]

Let the games begin!

Sweetwater delivered the Darkglass Vintage Ultra right on time. The Le Bass came signature required, and of course I was at work, so I'll have to pick it up tomorrow.

My initial impressions of the Darkglass Vintage Ultra. It's a nice piece of kit, but not as industrial as the Tone Hammer. The EQ knobs don't seem to be as sensitive as the Tone Hammer. Out of the box, with everything disengaged, the sucker was really quiet. I had to gain it up at the mixing console. Never had to do that with the Tone Hammer. So in the battle of "pure DI performance" the Tone Hammer takes it. It's not just better, it's remarkably better.

Moving on to the engaging the pedal. I turned on the circuit all set flat and it didn't sound any different. That's good, that's how it should be. Then I started tweaking knobs. Humm...sounds pretty good. Let's try that cab sim and software. I engaged the cab sim and it was THIS DAMN LOUD and I had to pull the master down. Then I heard it....HISSSSSSSSSSSS....turn the cab sim off.....silent. Back on....HISSSSSSSS. ARRRGH!! I do not tolerate noise in my chain. I'm running the thing on a regulated, isolated power supply. I even tried a wall wart...same thing. I switched back to the Tone Hammer. Silent as a church mouse. Back to the Darkglass.....HISSSSSSSSS. F*&k! I almost put it back in the box right then. But I tried different cam sims, but to no avail. The cab sim is just noisy as hell.

Here's a clip of the cab sim off, then on. You can hear the pop of the button and you can hear the hiss loud and clear. This is not "trivial". It really makes the cab sim unusable without gating it.



Here's the baseline track played via straight DI to the mixer. No EQ. No effects. Just the goodness of Cary Nordstrand's awesome jazz bass pickups and D'Addario NYXL strings.

Signal Chain:
Aguilar Tone Hammer (disengaged) --> Allen & Heath ZEDi 10 Mixer --> USB to Mac --> GarageBand --> Exported to Uncompressed WAV file --> Uploaded to Sound Cloud (where God knows what happens to it).

Baseline Track:


Tone Hammer Engaged with EQ set to my preference:


Darkglass Vintage Ultra - Clean - No Cab Sim:


Darkglass Vintage Ultra - Clean - Cab Sim Engaged:


Darkglass Vintage Ultra - Dirty - Cab Sim Engaged:


I ran the distortion really hot, but still not as stanky as you can get it. Overall, the Darkglass sounds nice except for the cab sim hiss. I do like the cab sim. It opens up a whole world of things.

Stay tuned for the next installment!

I can be a noise nancy myself....but in context, that cab sim isn't noisy at all.
No worse than my B15 with a mic on it that's for certain.

 

[symbolic_acts]

The thing with the B channel on the Le bass is dialing in the right amount of Bass. I want it to cut super hard but the way i have it set up right now loses a lot of low end. I definitely prefer the A channel and fusion modes, so far, but I'll be here..tweaking like a nerd.

 

[chadhargis]

The thing with the B channel on the Le bass is dialing in the right amount of Bass. I want it to cut super hard but the way i have it set up right now loses a lot of low end. I definitely prefer the A channel and fusion modes, so far, but I'll be here..tweaking like a nerd.

Without the speaker sim on B channel is very raspy. But with it on it's pretty nice. I can't wait to get my Torpedo C.A.B. hooked up and use the Le Bass as a MIDI controller to switch cab sims between the channels. The B channel with a big 8x10 fridge paired to it with lows boosted and some highs rolled off is gonna kill. Channel A is screaming for a B15 sim, and I can buy one from Two Notes store.

The fusion modes are different volumes when engaged, but I can adjust the volume in the Torpedo pedal too, so when the MIDI command switches to the preset for that channel or fusion mode, they will all be volume matched. Sweet Lord this is going to be a nice rig when I get done with it. Good thing, because I won't have money to do anything else but play bass.

 

[symbolic_acts]

Channel A is screaming for a B15 sim

haha i had the exact same thought. It'd sound like some absolutely 60's buttery goodness.

 

[chadhargis]

Quick update on the Le Bass. Used it in church again this morning and chatted with the sound guy a bit. I ran the clean channel A and he said everything sounded great. The only adjustment he had to make in the EQ was to pull some mid hump out due to the room. He did say he was running a cab sim on the mixer as well as some compression. I was running the speaker sim and my compressor, but he said everything sounded great. He was very complimentary of the tone and said the low notes were really round, full, and warm.

 

[chadhargis]

The MXR DI+ should arrive today...but in the mean time I've been having a blast with the Torpedo C.A.B.

Honestly I have no need for any sort of overdrive pedal with the Torpedo as it has a control on the tube power amp section that lets you run the "tubes" from cold to hot. Crank it up to hot and it's the unmistakable sound of overdriven tubes. So realistic you can smell the hot tubes if you close your eyes.

Folks, the Torpedo C.A.B. is really freakin good. I put it in the effects loop of the Le Bass, turned off the speaker sim on the Le Bass, then set the A and B channels to sound good without the C.A.B. engaged. Then I engaged the C.A.B. and the angels of tone descended upon me. From there, you can tweak tube type, tube "volume", tube depth and presence, mic type, mic location (both side to side and distance as well as front or back), reverb, an EQ, and finally output level.

There are several cabinets built in, but I purchased a few from the online "boutique" which you can test before you buy. Like the H9, I could spend days playing with this thing. It's a nerd's delight. The cool thing is the "arcade" mode. If you're more of a "set it and forget it" type, you can use arcade mode and move sliders such as "bright/dark" and "vintage/modern" and the software will adjust all the stuff for you in the background.

I was damn near late for work this morning as I made the mistake of grabbing my P bass with flats, dialing up a B15, and getting lost in some Jamerson style grooves. It's amazing...it sounds JUST LIKE a vintage B15. So cool!

 

[rufus.K]

frakkin sweet !

 

[chadhargis]

frakkin sweet !

Indeed!

I'm on a conference call and while I listen I'm reading up on the types of mics included in the C.A.B. and bass cabinet mic techniques. I used to be a bass player, now I'm having to study up on studio stuff.

 

[JustSomeDude]

The MXR DI+ should arrive today...but in the mean time I've been having a blast with the Torpedo C.A.B.

Honestly I have no need for any sort of overdrive pedal with the Torpedo as it has a control on the tube power amp section that lets you run the "tubes" from cold to hot. Crank it up to hot and it's the unmistakable sound of overdriven tubes. So realistic you can smell the hot tubes if you close your eyes.

Folks, the Torpedo C.A.B. is really freakin good. I put it in the effects loop of the Le Bass, turned off the speaker sim on the Le Bass, then set the A and B channels to sound good without the C.A.B. engaged. Then I engaged the C.A.B. and the angels of tone descended upon me. From there, you can tweak tube type, tube "volume", tube depth and presence, mic type, mic location (both side to side and distance as well as front or back), reverb, an EQ, and finally output level.

There are several cabinets built in, but I purchased a few from the online "boutique" which you can test before you buy. Like the H9, I could spend days playing with this thing. It's a nerd's delight. The cool thing is the "arcade" mode. If you're more of a "set it and forget it" type, you can use arcade mode and move sliders such as "bright/dark" and "vintage/modern" and the software will adjust all the stuff for you in the background.

I was damn near late for work this morning as I made the mistake of grabbing my P bass with flats, dialing up a B15, and getting lost in some Jamerson style grooves. It's amazing...it sounds JUST LIKE a vintage B15. So cool!

If you decide to stick with the CAB, you might consider grabbing a couple of Ownhammer IR's.
Their Ampegs are very good.
You don't need high sample rate or the longer IR's as the CAB truncates them to be very short.
But you can get great tones from the Two Notes IR's

 

[JustSomeDude]

Let the games begin!

Sweetwater delivered the Darkglass Vintage Ultra right on time. The Le Bass came signature required, and of course I was at work, so I'll have to pick it up tomorrow.

My initial impressions of the Darkglass Vintage Ultra.CUT

Moving on to the engaging the pedal. I turned on the circuit all set flat and it didn't sound any different. That's good, that's how it should be. Then I started tweaking knobs. Humm...sounds pretty good. Let's try that cab sim and software. I engaged the cab sim and it was THIS DAMN LOUD and I had to pull the master down. Then I heard it....HISSSSSSSSSSSS....turn the cab sim off.....silent. Back on....HISSSSSSSS. ARRRGH!!

Now that I have seen their demo....I think I might know why they didn't notice the hiss

You can get rid of the hiss....it's a dumb gain staging problem in their design.
But when you get rid of the hiss, it's way too loud to plug the 1/4" out into an amp.

 

[chadhargis]

Annnnnd.....the MXR Bass DI+

Got a chance to hook up the MXR Bass DI+ yesterday and record a short clip. As with all MRX pedals, I expected it to be a solid, uncomplicated, quality piece and that's exactly what it is. It has a few things that I really liked more than I thought I would. First, it sounds good. Nothing spectacular, just a very good solid tone. The preshape or "color" switch works pretty well and I only needed to tweak the EQ a bit. The lack of any sort of mid sweep or mid select switch is my only real gripe, but what it has seems to be fine.

The real surprise was the overdrive circuit. The overdrive tone didn't just wow me, but it has a noise gate feature with a threshold function that works really well. That's a very refreshing feature when using distortion as it's usually "hissy"...and the MXR overdrive channel is pretty noisy. There is a small LED on the pedal that gets dimmer as you approach the threshold then it goes off when the gate is open.

How would I rank the MRX DI+ among the others I tested? In this comparison, I think it comes in last, but not because it's a bad preamp. It's because it's very basic, simple, and built like a tank in a thick metal case. It can run off 9v power, a 9v battery, or 48v phantom power (which is SUPER helpful). It's not big, heavy, or fragile. If you want a clean DI, it works well for that. If you want a clean preamp, it works well for that. I bought the pedal for $88, and for that money, it's fantastic! Such a solid, reliable, simple, and relatively small piece of kit may end up in my gig bag now that my board has become very complex and is fairly unproven at this point. In a pinch, I could pull out the MRX DI+, plug it into phantom power, and do an entire gig with nothing else (I typically carry a clip on tuner too). I am a firm believe in always having a backup plan.

Here's a short clip of the MRX DI+. I neglected to record the overdrive, but as you'll hear, the MXR is just a good solid preamp. As with the others, I'm playing a Jazz V passive both pickups full and tone wide open.

 

[chadhargis]

So at the end of the comparison test, my pedal board has dramatically changed. Now I have many fun filled hours trying new things and finally arriving at "my sound". At the end of the day, is all this needed. Nope. Not at all. If you are a great player, you could plug a bass direct into the desk and sound fantastic. It really is "all in the hands".

But with the amazing pedals I have on my board, I can pretty much do about anything. The H9 and the Torpedo C.A.B. also work for guitar, so if I ever get my chops honed to the point that I actually play guitar on a gig, I'm good to go there.

The only piece of kit left that I'm adding to my board is a [sfx] Micro Thumpinator. It's ordered, paid for, and probably being built somewhere in the UK before a long trip across the Atlantic. My very much loved Turbo Tuner 300 has been booted off the board and I'm using the H9 as a tuner as it's pretty dang good in its own right. I enable it using the Barn 3 Tesla Tap located at the top of the board.

Next up for my tinkering addiction....MIDI control! The H9, Le Bass, and Torpedo C.A.B. are all MIDI capable. Tech21 MIDI Mongoose looks like an interesting option. But that's a different thread at a different time.

 

[JustSomeDude]

That's a powerful rig right there.
I am going to try the Le Bass

I actually use distortion/fuzz a good bit.
The concept of the A or B or A plus B in two different modes is exactly what I like. I just have to see if I can tune it in for me.

I really don't want to have to use a CAB. The built in cab sim sounds oK on the demos I have seen. How sad does it make you to think about playing without the CAB?

 

[chadhargis]

I really don't want to have to use a CAB. The built in cab sim sounds oK on the demos I have seen. How sad does it make you to think about playing without the CAB?

Not sad at all. I actually liked the speaker sim on the Le Bass. I had to adjust the controls accordingly as it does roll off quite a bit of top end, but it's totally functional.

What the CAB brings to the table is "vibe". If I'm doing a Motown tune I pull out my P bass with flats, dial up a B15 (complete with vintage speaker) and it's just dead on the tone. It's pretty astonishing. If I'm playing a rock song, dialing up an big Ampeg "Fridge" is a click away. But it's nothing that's "required". I doubt the audience would even notice unless they were also bass players.

The CAB also has a lot more natural tube distortion tone than even the Le Bass B channel. You can run the "tubes" hot or cold in the power amp and it's amazing how you get not just distortion, but tonal shape as well. It sounds really cool and the tone varies with how much attack you're providing.

But no, the CAB was a purchase I made because of how good the speaker sim on the Le Bass sounded. I wanted more of it!

 

[JustSomeDude]

Not sad at all. I actually liked the speaker sim on the Le Bass. I had to adjust the controls accordingly as it does roll off quite a bit of top end, but it's totally functional.

What the CAB brings to the table is "vibe". If I'm doing a Motown tune I pull out my P bass with flats, dial up a B15 (complete with vintage speaker) and it's just dead on the tone. It's pretty astonishing. If I'm playing a rock song, dialing up an big Ampeg "Fridge" is a click away. But it's nothing that's "required". I doubt the audience would even notice unless they were also bass players.

The CAB also has a lot more natural tube distortion tone than even the Le Bass B channel. You can run the "tubes" hot or cold in the power amp and it's amazing how you get not just distortion, but tonal shape as well. It sounds really cool and the tone varies with how much attack you're providing.

But no, the CAB was a purchase I made because of how good the speaker sim on the Le Bass sounded. I wanted more of it!

Thanks!
I had a CAB (used mainly for guitar) and also have a 2 Notes Captor. It's "Bass" speaker sim is very functional.
If you really want to ruin your day, use IR's in a computer or a Universal Audio OX. Takes it even farther than the CAB.
But yeah...no one in your Church or Club will notice (except for the engineer

 

[chadhargis]

But yeah...no one in your Church or Club will notice (except for the engineer

This is very true. Sometimes I wonder why I bother, but I do take pride in my tone and my gear. I come prepared. I know my gear and how to use it (and not over use it). In a church worship team setting where I get maybe 15 seconds of sound check, I like to send the FOH my absolute best tone so the sound guy doesn't have to do anything except EQ for the room.

I play mostly covers, whether in a band or in a worship setting. Not many original tunes where I get to create bass lines or sounds. So I listen to the bass in the song and do my best to match it. Sometimes it's simple dynamics and hand placement. Sometimes is other things.

Take this recent example. One is Louis Johnson. One is me. Obviously I'm no Louis Johnson. But with enough trickery I can sound like him.

 

[Cuzzie]

If we are talking pre amps (I did mention the Hartke VXL) and posting photos, i’ll post a photo of mine

Chain goes Right to left

Tuner - Mantic Beef bag - Cali76G- Two Notes (A channel only) - Hartke VXL - CaliCB - KMA Audio Machines The Tyler - Demon Pedals The Parvati in the LPF and MXR bass chorus deluxe in the HPF - ISP decimator.

The Tyler is a double FX loop pedal one side HPF one LPF.
The clean signal remains unfiltered all the way and I can fold in sounds as required into the loops.

Clean to rich to mysterious to nasty in easy clicks.
Probably should have gone midi like you @chadhargis but it’s something I dreamt up and like!