The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Jacob J]

See you're from Nashville. Shift-Line is at the NAMM (booth 1058), it's a good chance for you to try it out there.

 

[chadhargis]

Folks...first off thanks for reading along. I've enjoyed doing this tiny compro. Today I achieved something which I seldom do. I enjoyed listening to my own playing. Normally all I can do is critique myself, but the Le Bass pedal either inspired me to play better, or it just plain makes me sound awesome.

Here's the rig rundown:

2011 Fender Precision V - all stock - controls dimed
Labella Flat Wound Strings
MXR Bass Compressor
H9 "Classic Octaver" patch on Billie Jean
Le Bass with cab sim enabled direct to board

This is the house mix, so it's not mixed for listening, but you'll hear the bass just fine. Our church creative team is a bunch of bass heads, so the bass is usually really heavy in the mix.

Walk In Music - Bille Jean - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled and H9 Octaver patch:



Worship Set Snippets:

Who You Say I Am - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled:


Tremble - Le Bass Channel B with Cab Sim enabled. I'm not running too high of gain, and enabled this mid song with no volume change. YES!!! Nice drive tone. Subtle, but it's there.


Right Now - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled. Listen for that Low C at 1:45! Tight! Sweet! Round! Veeeery nice! And that's with flats!


We may have a winner here. The Darkglass Vintage Ultra was trounced by both the Tone Hammer and the Le Bass. The AGRO overdrive pedal will be on the desk tomorrow night and I'll do some comparing between Tone Hammer and Le Bass. The Le Bass cab sim is absolutely pure goodness. Rolls off all that nasty high end without making the bass sound thin and lifeless. And since the Le Bass is MIDI capable I can link it with my H9 and have the H9 call up any EQ setting I want, on the fly, with matching gain. All with the tap of a button or using my iPhone as a MIDI controller (the H9 is bluetooth enabled).

Stay tuned...we're not done yet!

 

[Rickter]

Folks...first off thanks for reading along. I've enjoyed doing this tiny compro. Today I achieved something which I seldom do. I enjoyed listening to my own playing. Normally all I can do is critique myself, but the Le Bass pedal either inspired me to play better, or it just plain makes me sound awesome.

Here's the rig rundown:

2011 Fender Precision V - all stock - controls dimed
Labella Flat Wound Strings
MXR Bass Compressor
H9 "Classic Octaver" patch on Billie Jean
Le Bass with cab sim enabled direct to board

This is the house mix, so it's not mixed for listening, but you'll hear the bass just fine. Our church creative team is a bunch of bass heads, so the bass is usually really heavy in the mix.

Walk In Music - Bille Jean - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled and H9 Octaver patch:



Worship Set Snippets:

Who You Say I Am - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled:


Tremble - Le Bass Channel B with Cab Sim enabled. I'm not running too high of gain, and enabled this mid song with no volume change. YES!!! Nice drive tone. Subtle, but it's there.


Right Now - Le Bass Channel A with Cab Sim enabled. Listen for that Low C at 1:45! Tight! Sweet! Round! Veeeery nice! And that's with flats!


We may have a winner here. The Darkglass Vintage Ultra was trounced by both the Tone Hammer and the Le Bass. The AGRO overdrive pedal will be on the desk tomorrow night and I'll do some comparing between Tone Hammer and Le Bass. The Le Bass cab sim is absolutely pure goodness. Rolls off all that nasty high end without making the bass sound thin and lifeless. And since the Le Bass is MIDI capable I can link it with my H9 and have the H9 call up any EQ setting I want, on the fly, with matching gain. All with the tap of a button or using my iPhone as a MIDI controller (the H9 is bluetooth enabled).

Stay tuned...we're not done yet!

Hate to hear that the DG pedal did,t work for you, but stoked to hear that you’ve found something that works so well for your needs. Looking forward to hearing the rest of your analysis.

 

[chadhargis]

Hate to hear that the DG pedal did,t work for you

The Darkglass pedal was a really nice unit minus the noise with cab sim. It's not a bad piece of kit at all.

Comparing these units is a bit of apples and oranges. The Tone Hammer is a true preamp/DI. It has no cab sims, no MIDI, no multi channels, etc. It's sort of like taking Usain Bolt, putting one of his legs in a cast, then being amazed when a sumo wrestler beats him in a 100yd dash.

I'm seeking a "do it all" solution that will allow me to go ampless, have a nice overdrive on demand, a good DI, and some tone shaping EQ preferably with sweepable mids. I'm really very impressed with the Le Bass.

 

[57pbass]

I’d love to have a Noble, but that’s a little steep for my budget. If I were a pro player and a studio cat I’d invest in one. But as a hobby player and worship team bassist, I can’t justify it.

It sounds like you found your sound on those clips..very nice playing.
The quest is never ending...

 

[chadhargis]

It sounds like you found your sound on those clips..very nice playing.
The quest is never ending...

Thank you for the kind words.

True the search never ends. I believe the Tone Hammer has been dethroned and the Le Bass reigns king, until I get my hands on something else to try.

I don't know what cabinet sim is loaded into the Le Bass, but it sounds as close to a backline which was provided by Soundcheck during a rehearsal I had a few years back. It was a big SVT rig, 6x10. The big tube amp weighed about 100lbs and it had this wonderful little button on it that said "DEEP". Why yes...I think I will push that. And I was in love. And I've searched for something that gave me that tone without the amp and refrigerator sized cab ever since.

 

[SteveBassJr]

After reading this thread, my interest in cab sim has been sparked. I thought the purpose of a cab sim was silly for me because, i love the sounds of my cabs. Why would i want my cabs to sound like a diffrent cab? From what im gathering here is that a sim could make my 1x12 sound like an 8x10. By enhancing the frequency and channelling specific cuts, boosts + - sound waves to emulate a specific cab speaker design. The preamps that I have been messing with dont have cab sims. Rmi Basswitch, Sadowsky, Aguilar db924.
As of now The Basswitch sounds the best and the most clean thing I ever used. Sadowsky is really like a really hott blond and the end of the night, with eyes that will melt your soul. I love it! Aguilar db924 is like the Sadowsky but not as sexy. You wouldn't throw her out of bed tho. I am missing tube sounds. The LB sounds interesting for some strange reason the looks scare me. Lots of knobs. I almost feel like I would be tweaking forever. Also the Shift Line looks great. Very intrested in that. Thanks for the thread!

 

[chadhargis]

Why would i want my cabs to sound like a diffrent cab? From what im gathering here is that a sim could make my 1x12 sound like an 8x10.

I have great cabs and a great amp, but they are currently under a heavy moving blanket in my basement, and that's really where I prefer all 80lbs of them to stay.

When I play, if there is a PA with subs or decent mains, I'm going direct. No amp, no cabs. The only bad thing about doing that is the PA is full range. Even with an EQ on my bass, it's not the same sound of a bass cab that was designed to produce bass tone. But turn on the cab sim while plugged in direct (or practicing with headphones) and it's amazing. Sounds like a huge 6x10 fridge. Most cab sims suck. I had a Zoom B3 a while back and the effects were good, but the cab sims were a tone suck. The one on the Le Bass is very pleasing to me.

 

[keatz]

It would take ALOT to convince me to do a gig even cabless again. I havent been impressed whatsoever in the few times ive tried.(which has only been with vt bass cab sim a couple of times and once with a kemper). I have no doubt it can sound impressive out front(which is the most important thing) but if your not feeling it or loving it yourself you dont play as good and its nowhere near as enjoyable. I just need to hear and feel the cab moving air behind me.....

 

[57pbass]

It would take ALOT to convince me to do a gig even cabless again. I havent been impressed whatsoever in the few times ive tried.(which has only been with vt bass cab sim a couple of times and once with a kemper). I have no doubt it can sound impressive out front(which is the most important thing) but if your not feeling it or loving it yourself you dont play as good and its nowhere near as enjoyable. I just need to hear and feel the cab moving air behind me.....

Agreed...The only way I would go without a cabinet is if I have major monitor support that I can control... for my own pleasure and to drive the band..

 

[Cuzzie]

It does not surprise me the LeBass won, it’s a wonderful piece of kit which allows you to forgive its large footprint and power thirst.

At the other end of the spectrum cost wise but not size is the Hartke VXL first edition. I think this is a gem of a pedal
Furthermore it stacks nicely with the Two Notes before or after for interesting sounds.

For more up to date pedals I would love to hear your thoughts on how the Tech21 DP3x and the new Trickfish Trilobite compare if you can get hold of them

 

[57pbass]

It does not surprise me the LeBass won, it’s a wonderful piece of kit which allows you to forgive its large footprint and power thirst.

At the other end of the spectrum cost wise but not size is the Hartke VXL first edition. I think this is a gem of a pedal
Furthermore it stacks nicely with the Two Notes before or after for interesting sounds.

For more up to date pedals I would love to hear your thoughts on how the Tech21 DP3x and the new Trickfish Trilobite compare if you can get hold of them

I agree with you about the Hartke pedal. I won one at a bass clinic and I was surprised how good it sounded.. the LH500 & 1000 bass heads are also great value heads with good power and great tone..

 

[Cuzzie]

I got the pedal based on loving the tone of the LH1000 - it then meant I could have the sound I want without lugging around the heavy head!

For me, having bought it second hand for £40, it has a DI out, can be used with a battery, built like a tank and you can get a really great clean and dirty tone - it’s a no brainer.

I use a pick and if you want to get a real punch and cut through it’s awesome - does a great slap tone and i’ll Say it again, stacks beautifully with the Two Notes.

Those 2 and a Cali76G or CaliCB compressor form the core of my sound (not that I am particularly great, but I like it!)

 

[chadhargis]

Agreed...The only way I would go without a cabinet is if I have major monitor support that I can control... for my own pleasure and to drive the band..

Much of the time I play in church and we run a silent stage other than the drums. No amps on stage, even for the guitar player and we are use in-ears. At each of our campuses, the subs are so fantastically good that my puny 4x10 rig couldn't hold a candle to them. The seriously rattle the room and most times the kick drum and bass are front and center in the mix. I typically leave one ear out so I can hear the house and even as a bass player I sometimes question how much bottom end they run in the mix. No trouble hearing the bass.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

I do lots of ampless/IEM gigs. It IS different, but you get used to it. Especially when your cab is a 2.5 oz set of earbuds.

I love the THDI. Is it perfect? Nope. But it’s super easy to use, goes for cheap on the used market, can be powered by a wall wart, phantom power or two 9 v’s, and sounds great in a mix. ‘Nuff said.

 

[chadhargis]

For more up to date pedals I would love to hear your thoughts on how the Tech21 DP3x and the new Trickfish Trilobite compare if you can get hold of them

I love evaluating gear. But admittedly I evaluate them with my ear and I'm not very objective. I know what I like, and what I think sounds good, but I don't know what others like. For example, I HATE clangy bass. Hearing strings clicking of frets is like fingers on a chalk board to me. Some think it's a beautiful sound. I also hate "burpy" tone. People love Jaco's tone, I think it sounds like a seasick elephant. Just my personal opinion.

When I think of bass, I think of Jamerson, Duck Dunn, Bob Babbitt, David Hood, Lee Sklar....the guys who have played on thousands of records I love. Not that, say...Doug Wimbish or Chris Squire aren't great players...even Geddy Lee...I love Rush...but I've never really dug Geddy's tone. I'd love to hear him drop the bottom on some of those Rush lines. I remember when I first bought the "Hold Your Fire" CD. It was the first "DDD" all digital disc I ever owned. I put it in my car loaded with subs...and nothing happened. Why Geddy...why didn't you knock the windows out like Eazy-E did. LOL!

I did try the Tech21 DP3x at GearFest. It didn't tickle my fancy.

 

[Rickter]

The Darkglass pedal was a really nice unit minus the noise with cab sim. It's not a bad piece of kit at all.

Comparing these units is a bit of apples and oranges. The Tone Hammer is a true preamp/DI. It has no cab sims, no MIDI, no multi channels, etc. It's sort of like taking Usain Bolt, putting one of his legs in a cast, then being amazed when a sumo wrestler beats him in a 100yd dash.

I'm seeking a "do it all" solution that will allow me to go ampless, have a nice overdrive on demand, a good DI, and some tone shaping EQ preferably with sweepable mids. I'm really very impressed with the Le Bass.

Nice analogy. I liked the Tone Hammer a lot, but the AGS just never really appealed to me. Only liked it in very modest amounts. I typically viewed the Tone Hammer as a pedal based version of the Aguilar onboard preamps with a few extra bells and whistles.

 

[Rickter]

After reading this thread, my interest in cab sim has been sparked. I thought the purpose of a cab sim was silly for me because, i love the sounds of my cabs. Why would i want my cabs to sound like a diffrent cab? From what im gathering here is that a sim could make my 1x12 sound like an 8x10. By enhancing the frequency and channelling specific cuts, boosts + - sound waves to emulate a specific cab speaker design. The preamps that I have been messing with dont have cab sims. Rmi Basswitch, Sadowsky, Aguilar db924.
As of now The Basswitch sounds the best and the most clean thing I ever used. Sadowsky is really like a really hott blond and the end of the night, with eyes that will melt your soul. I love it! Aguilar db924 is like the Sadowsky but not as sexy. You wouldn't throw her out of bed tho. I am missing tube sounds. The LB sounds interesting for some strange reason the looks scare me. Lots of knobs. I almost feel like I would be tweaking forever. Also the Shift Line looks great. Very intrested in that. Thanks for the thread!

Just understand that the cab sims/IRs are essentially just eq curves applied at the end stage of output. They're typically meant for being fed directly to a PA system or to a recording console. Some seem to have had luck feeding cab sims into the front of an amp, but that seems to be hit or miss. I'll be trying it myself fairly soon. Feeding an amp sim into a 1x12 combo isn't necessarily going to make that 1x12 sound like an 8x10, but it will act as a HPF/LPF and possibly help a combo run more efficiently.

 

[Rickter]

It would take ALOT to convince me to do a gig even cabless again. I havent been impressed whatsoever in the few times ive tried.(which has only been with vt bass cab sim a couple of times and once with a kemper). I have no doubt it can sound impressive out front(which is the most important thing) but if your not feeling it or loving it yourself you dont play as good and its nowhere near as enjoyable. I just need to hear and feel the cab moving air behind me.....

This is a big part of why I like my Alpha Omega Ultra/GK combo. In a venue with PA support, I can run the AOU to the FOH and to my 1001RB/410. I get great sound in the room without mic'ing and I get that tone through my amp so I can feel that sound pressure at my back.

 

[chadhargis]

Just understand that the cab sims/IRs are essentially just eq curves applied at the end stage of output. They're typically meant for being fed directly to a PA system or to a recording console.

That's exactly how I use a cab sim. Because they are image response files created by micing up an actual cabinet, running pink noise through them, and analyzing the response, you can achieve things you can't with the traditional bass, treble, and mid controls. Even a graphic or parametric EQ can't do the same thing. They can get close, but I've messed with using EQs and I tweaked for hours on end and was never really happy.

I used to build car stereos during my misspent youth back in the 80's when it was truly all about that bass. Even back then there was cabinet software that helped you design the right size cab and the right size ports. You could buy the best sub, and the best amp, but if your enclosure sucked, your sub sucked. If you wanted boomy you built the box differently than someone who wanted tight bass. Rap was a different enclosure than smooth jazz. If you were competing and wanted max SPL at a predetermined frequency, you went bandpass enclosure. You could isobaric load subs if you were looking for specific things.

So the cab is very important for bass. The Tone Hammer is an awesome pure pre-amp DI. If someone told me I had to use the Tone Hammer and could never use anything else under penalty of death, I'd be 100% fine with that. It's a real testament to how good that preamp is that it can stand toe to toe with something like the Le Bass which is loaded with bells and whistles.