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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#81
chadhargis said:
That's exactly how I use a cab sim. Because they are image response files created by micing up an actual cabinet, running pink noise through them, and analyzing the response, you can achieve things you can't with the traditional bass, treble, and mid controls. Even a graphic or parametric EQ can't do the same thing. They can get close, but I've messed with using EQs and I tweaked for hours on end and was never really happy.

I used to build car stereos during my misspent youth back in the 80's when it was truly all about that bass. Even back then there was cabinet software that helped you design the right size cab and the right size ports. You could buy the best sub, and the best amp, but if your enclosure sucked, your sub sucked. If you wanted boomy you built the box differently than someone who wanted tight bass. Rap was a different enclosure than smooth jazz. If you were competing and wanted max SPL at a predetermined frequency, you went bandpass enclosure. You could isobaric load subs if you were looking for specific things.

So the cab is very important for bass. The Tone Hammer is an awesome pure pre-amp DI. If someone told me I had to use the Tone Hammer and could never use anything else under penalty of death, I'd be 100% fine with that. It's a real testament to how good that preamp is that it can stand toe to toe with something like the Le Bass which is loaded with bells and whistles.
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Yep, I worked in a car audio shop during my college days in the early/mid 90s. Cabs add so many variables to frequency response that it is unbelievable and those variables typically affected overall sound drastically. It's funny to think about how what I learned being involved with automotive and home theater audio has helped my understanding when it comes to things music related.
 
#82
Sean Brookes said:
Anyone tried out or using the new TC Electronic Spectracomp?
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"SpectraDrive." ("Spectracomp" is a stand-alone compressor.) I have one. My only other point of comparison is the MXR DI+, which did not work out great for my uses.

The primary channel, as far as I can tell, is quite clean - it doesn't color the tone much. If you want to influence the tone, you have three options.

1) Mess with the EQ. Probably not the best plan for radical changes.

2) Use the Drive channel and find a TonePrint that works for you.

3) Same with the Compressor prints. Several are designed to affect the tone.

At the moment, the TonePrint editor does not work with the SpectraDrive. I emailed TC, and it sounds like they are working on it.
 
#83
Rickter said:
It's funny to think about how what I learned being involved with automotive and home theater audio has helped my understanding when it comes to things music related.
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Same here. I started playing music when I was 38yo. Before that, I used to run sound for my brothers band from time to time. I started building stereos when I was a young child. By the time I was a teenager, I was building competition systems for both sound quality and DB drags. I learned that there is only so much sound you can shove through a speaker. The more focused that sound is, the better. Crossovers were always the key to a great competition system. Route the right frequencies to the right drivers.
 
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#84
Jacob J said:
... I have already tried the Olympic that way, plugging it into the effect return and effectively bypassing the Rumble's preamp, and the result was really good. The sound was bigger, warmer, and I cut through the mix easier. It also has its own baked in tone - courtesy of the classic Fender tonestack I suppose.
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Just a quick note: the entire upper panel including the tone stack should be bypassed if you're running another pre into the effect return. I think all that would be heard from the Fender, when run that way, is whether you have the horn switched on or off. I've been doing the same with my preamp trials and recently kind of rediscovered the Rumble's own tone actually when doing without a preamp pedal for a few days.
 
#85
@chadhargis yep totally get you on the DP3X , and it’s not for everyone.

I am a self confessed dUg and Kings X worshipper, but I don’t like really fizzy clanky bass.
I thought I would dial in the dUg tone preset and be away, but it’s not for me. It probably took 2-4 weeks of gentle tinker mixing between out loud and headphones (accounting for ear fatigue) before I worked it out and found a tone I liked across my basses, not just distorted but getting a solid clean tone that I can then kick in the dirt without dial fiddling for a little bite.

It was well worth it.

Will it replace my Two Notes, Hartke, Cali etc pedal combination?

Definitely not....BUT it’s tiny size, compressor, EQ, distortion and compression all in a small box at a reasonable price, it’s a winner, and I like it as well.

If you get a chance at an extended run on it, it’s worth another shot IMHO
 
#86
DDXdesign said:
Just a quick note: the entire upper panel including the tone stack should be bypassed if you're running another pre into the effect return. I think all that would be heard from the Fender, when run that way, is whether you have the horn switched on or off. I've been doing the same with my preamp trials and recently kind of rediscovered the Rumble's own tone actually when doing without a preamp pedal for a few days.
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Sorry, only now I see it can be understood that way too. What I meant was that the Olympic has its own tone because its EQ mimics the classic Fender Bassman tonestack (passive, cut only). Your comment is still valid thou.
 
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#88
The AGRO is here!

Le Bass is on channel one of the mixer and the Tone Hammer on channel two...time to hear some samples of each.

If you've read this far, you know I'm looking for a "jack of all trades" preamp/DI with a distortion circuit. I've been using a Tone Hammer for a couple of years and am happy with it except for the wonky AGS circuit on it. So I started a hunt for something that's just as good (or better) than the Tone Hammer, but also has a good overdriven channel I can engage when I need it.

I figured since I like the Tone Hammer for everything except overdrive, I'd add an AGRO pedal to it. And I have to say, the AGRO is really nice. I love that you can tweak it and not lose your low end when you add the drive.

I dialed in some nice MILD drive on the AGRO to go along with the Channel B setting on the Le Bass (I did not demo the fusion modes which are also VERY useful and cool). Here's a simple groove I played (pardon any mistakes...I was just noodling). See which one you guys like better. My vote is still for the Le Bass which wins on the cab sim (which is enabled in the clip). Turn the cab sim off on the Le Bass and it still sounds good, just more "wide open". Without the cab sim, I'd give the edge to the Tone Hammer...but that cab sim takes it to the next level. Both are equally quiet. I actually have both channels up with headphones on and not one bit of hiss from either pedal, each with their volume knobs turned up about half way and the gain on the board about a quarter of the way up. So plenty of signal.

You folks who love top end in your tone will like the Tone Hammer. For you "old school" guys like me...man...that Le Bass is FAT BUTTERY GOODNESS!

Le Bass Groove:


Tone Hammer Groove:



MORE TO COME!
Next up is the MXR Bass Preamp+. Won one on eBay, but says delivery is estimated July 10th. I'll plug it in and give it a go.

Tone Hammer and AGRO more than likely going Reverb soon.
 
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#90
keatz said:
LOVE the tonehammer but that agro sounds awful imo. Never enjoyed anything ive heard from the agro. LeBass sounds really nice.
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I really liked the AGRO. I am not a fan of balls out distortion. I'm not a metal player. But a nice grit comes in handy sometimes. I had the AGRO dialed in pretty tame, but you can get a tone of tones from it with the presence and contour knobs.

It was a bittersweet morning as my Tone Hammer went to Reverb. I thought about keeping it as a backup, but I got bills to pay and I can't have so much money tied up in pedals I don't use. Plus, I'm seriously considering getting a Torpedo C.A.B. to play with, or a Mooer Radar. The only problem with either of those is the 12v high current requirement which means I have to buy a bigger power supply and in the case of the C.A.B. a bigger pedal board....and that's a lot of extra expense. Powering the Le Bass using two outputs on my Cioks DC5 using a parallel cable to give it enough amperage. That uses up both high current ports, so I'm having to run my Eventide (also a 12v high current pedal) off it's OEM power adapter. I ended up ordering a small power strip and using a short cord for the Cioks. I do have one more outlet on it, so I could run an extra pedal with an adapter. Sadly, they won't be isolated like the Cioks power is. Might end up having to get the Cioks PowerMax when it's available. It will still fit under my Pedaltrain Mini and save me from having to buy a new board if I like the Mooer Radar, which is a tiny little pedal that can slot in on my current board pretty easily and sit right in the effects loop of the Le Bass.
 
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#91
As I wait for the last of the preamps to show up, the MXR Bass DI+, I'm absolutely digging the Le Bass. I've tweaked and dialed it in even better. Using A channel as a ultra clean "deep" tone and B channel as a slightly overdriven rock tone with less bottom and more low mids. It's exactly want I was looking for. Dig in on the B channel and the tube breaks up nicely, play soft and it is nice and warm.

I am using "cold fusion" for the channel blend which basically takes the fat booty from Channel A and adds it to the wooly tone of Channel B and it's GREAT for playing with a pick. The cab sim never gets turned off, but I'm doubling down on Two Notes and I've purchased a used Torpedo C.A.B. and a MIDI cable so I can automatically switch cab sims between channels and fusion mode.

You know you've found the tone you're looking for when you have a hard time believing it's actually YOU playing. It sounds so damn good, it can't be me...I'm not that good of a player. :)

I've also had to order a new power supply as my Cioks DC5 won't run the Le Bass and the Eventide H9 together. Cioks and Eventide worked together to develop a new power supply called the "PowerMax" by Eventide and it's available on their site. Cioks will brand it the "DC7". It will power the Le Bass, the H9, and the Torpedo C.A.B. (which is also 12v high current) and still not be breathing hard. So now I've had to pull the trigger on a new pedal board because the C.A.B. is a monster size pedal. So I picked up a Temple Audio Duo 17. Should have plenty of room then.

This experiment has cost me too damn much money. I think I'm going to have to start a GoFundMe account so I can pay bills this month. :)
 
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#94
Cuzzie said:
Marriage is expensive, divorce even more so, don’t go chasing more pedals after this, it gets no better!
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I've always said if I ever got divorced I 'd never get married again because the above statement is absolutely true.

After all this time and money, when I plug that XLR out into the board, and the sound guy compresses it, EQs it, and mixes it....will anyone be able to tell a difference? Probably not.

I have active preamps in all but one bass (my trusty P5 is passive), and I've plugged them all into a straight DI to the board, tweaked the onboard EQ, and rocked the house....many times. I've tried dozens of different types of strings and pickups too. I enjoyed playing...but is anyone going to notice you're using D'Addario Nickel XLs or Prosteels? Nope, they won't.

At the end of the day, if you're a great player, you'll sound great on a $100 Rogue bass. I attended a clinic with Bryan Beller once and he was playing a very sweet Mike Lull jazz bass through a killer GK setup. When I asked him about his tone and what gear he used he told me, "None of this stuff matters, it's all in your fingers"....then proceeded to hand me his $5000 Lull bass and said, "Play something". I did. It sounded TOTALLY DIFFERENT than Bryan. It sounded just like me playing my bass with a different EQ curve applied.

So for those who have been following this thread, know that I'm not delusional. I know gear can't make you a great player. Only your hands and lots of practice can. But I'm also a tech geek and have been since I was 10yo. So combining my tech hobby with my music hobby is very natural to me. Being able to iOS or computer control my multi-effects pedal via bluetooth or set up cab sims on a computer is endless hours of enjoyment for me. I play out maybe two or three times per month and I do it for free because A) It's typically in church, and B) I just love playing and making music with other people. So having a perfect tone isn't really anything I absolutely need. I get about 30 seconds in sound check to hit a few notes and let the sound guy impose his will on me. After that, no one listens to me anymore because I'm locked in with the drummer doing my thing supporting the band and staying in the pocket. And for that role, my old Tone Hammer setup was about spot on perfect. You really can't go wrong with that preamp. It's built like a tank, reliable, runs on phantom power, and sounds great with zero noise. And who's to say that in 6 months, I get tired of all the complication and tweaking and I go back to the Tone Hammer.

One thing that never changes is that change is constant.
 
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#95
fully agree with you, and had this argument/discussion a number of times.

Why do I play the gear I do, simple I like the sound, I like the gear, its not the cheapest and its not the most expensive, mainly second hand sourced and a good deal, but I don't chase what I can't afford and would put me in financial trouble - and as a bloke I just like stuff, but operate a strict containment strategy in area I can have it.
Also its nice conversing with people about stuff on sites like this from time to time.

An ode to what you said, I played a massively old VOX last night, ancient strings, pretty sure only about half the split coil pick up worked, it was a guitarist buddies bass.

I absolutely loved it, straight into a Phil Jones Bass cub, the occasional plonk on the Tech21 DP3X pedal, but often just clean.

Of basses at home, my cheapie Hohner B2 is a dream as well.

Sometimes its a bit like Cola is a nice drink, but every now and then a Pepsi or even a proper Coca Cola just hits the spot
 
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#100
BasementWarrior said:
Yeah. It seems no one talks about it or even tries it. I’ve found it’s one of the best out there.
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It looks very interesting and I'd love to try one but it's fairly new and there aren't many on the used market. I can't really afford to buy new then lose my back side if I sell it. I'm pretty content in taking a loss of $20 or something to try a pedal. But the LR Baggs runs about $250 new. There is one on Reverb for $200 and it's been listed for 2 months and no one has bought it, so I suspect the price is higher than market demand. I'd more than likely lose $100 to try that pedal.

I did check the local music stores to see if anyone had one I might be able to demo in the store, but no one stocks them.
 
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